When all phenomena is erased

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by bhaktajan, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    No doubt you could defeat me in any discussion of the Gita, using logic... you still have not experienced that which you speak of, however.
     
  2. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    10
    That's like saying,
    "You have learnt English, what is the purpose of utilising it?"

    or,
    "You have earned your pay-check, what is the purpose of cashing it?"
     
  3. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, it is more like saying "you have earned a doctorate of English, why then return to elementary school studies of the subject?"

    or

    "You own a business, why work for someone else in your free time?"
     
  4. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Moksha means liberation, you ask me to imprison myself in the box another has created.
     
  5. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    10

    IMO:
    Advaita (Oneness) is a sentiment that does not require hundreds of books and verses to arrive at.

    Advaita-Philosophy is simplistic Philosophical sentiment inre to the seekers "Oneness" with the creation.

    The simplistic Philosophical sentiment that "all is One" is true for any pedestrian.

    Advaita is not a revelation ---its common sense dressed in flowery words that yield self-angrandisement only.

    How many verses is required before one conceeds that "All is One" ---it's poetry masquerading as a sort of calculus of Hindu Philosophy ---when upon review, it's just unending narratives of "Oneness".

    Reading Advaita texts do not make one an expert on Hindu Metaphysics.
    It just makes one feel at ease because they are informed of the 'inert' "Oneness" underlying all of the phantasmagoria of karmic activity in the Creation.
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I completely agree, reading without experience has no benefit at all.

    Does a full scholarly understanding of metaphysics allow you to see the face of Brahman? What use are the metaphysics if the goal is not attained?
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course, I call it Brahman because you are Hindu.

    It is the nameless, for words themselves are human in nature, not divine. Divinity is the consolidation of all duality, yet in disputes over which understanding within the dual plane have best described the One, how many have died in the history of this planet?

    Can it even be said with certainty that Brahman is God? God is a personification of the Absolute, yet it is merely another word that people have attached their own meaning to.

    If I am held to the unenlightened persons view of God, then I am atheist, I am grateful this is not the case.
     
  8. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    10
    BTW, this is a false assertion!

    National Wars and/or societal murders are mostly about material thieft of wealth & property by a gang under a common banner ---the banner may be any concocted common factor such as "We band of hoards are of common-think, lets us go forth and hoard!"

    Wars are not fought over Philosophical debates ---they are acts of robbery.
     
  9. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can view it in any light you choose, it does not change the facts. These hoards are acting on the scriptures they hold most dear and slay those that disagree...
     
  10. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    10
    Some follow the commandments, and others, do schemes.
     
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    All are basing their actions on scripture, believing they do the will of the Supreme. When we consider the Supreme as other, we strive to appease it at all cost. When we see we are part of the Supreme, we understand that our own considerations are divine and thus will think again.

    You are not Christian, so substitute "Christ" and "God" with "Brahman" to apply it to the Gita. No other text explains this quite as beautifully:

    12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
    15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

    21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

    27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
     
  12. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    10
    Just had to add this FINALE:

    Some one in Cyber Space Posted:
    To wit Some else in Cyber Space replied:
    Out of the mouths of babas come profundities.
     
  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    132
    If you are a part of it then what worship? Should I worship myself?
     
  14. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    98
    This thread is very interesting after so 7 years have gone by.

    Please peruse my postulations and my applied terminology.

    Comments very welcomed
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,549
    Likes Received:
    1,538
    OK.

    In the spirit of dialogue, I would say that:
    Can the Absolute 'known'?

    In the Western tradition, the Absolute transcends all categories of determination and thus all determinations of knowledge and knowability. It's a given that the Absolute in Itself is beyonf comprehension, because there's nothing to comprehend.

    Or put another way, only God knows Himself Absolutely. To know the Absolute as Absolute would require us to be the Absolute, and we're not. We can sense God, experience God, be with God, sink into God, etc., but all these sayings are relative and provisional, as they are statements made by the relative ... the 'apophatic' texts in all traditions point to this.

    But the second point is, even aspiring to such knowledge is beyond the whit of most people. Very few are so rigorously intellectually disposed. Think of all the monks in all the traditions there have ever been, and how many attain enlightenment?

    If the heart is right disposed, God is immanently present in those forms/thoughts/ideas, hence the power of the evocation of the Divine Name.

    To the traditions dependent on the Vedas. The same absoluteness of the Divine is spoken of in the sacra doctrina of other traditions.

    Well in the Absolute, there exists potential beyond our capacity to imagine ...
     

Share This Page