Here is an article about three female Catholic 'priests' in Chicago and the tribulations they are going through.
Change has to come from within ... it cannot be imposed from without, except by threat and violence. And the Catholic Church, over the years, has proved itself remarkably resistant to intimidation.
Of course, there are always those who are impatient, or consider their own good is a more necessary benefit than the good of all.
The ordinations are, of course, defective ... so there are no 'women priests' nor will there be until the Church decides in its wisdom that such should be the case.
Whatever one's thoughts and feelings on the matter, this is not the way forward.
In the Anglican Communion, the decision has been made, by a few, to endorse openly gay men as clergy and indeed bishops. Is this a democratic process rising from within? No, its the will of a self-declared elite, notably white and well educated, who insist they know better than anyone else.
St Paul's teaching, on scandalising one's neighbour, applies here.
There is a growing recognition that the historical attitude towards women needs to be examined and questioned. I question it myself, but I do so by the presentation of viable data — the evidence of the activities of women in the establishment and growth of the Early Church, a fact which was sidelined and left to dwell in the shadows subsequently — not by setting up a rival organisation, nor by such stunts as displayed here.
A vocation is often seen as an undeniable calling from God. I tend to view it as a personal disposition. But for God to call someone to a station they cannot possibly fulfil, according to the rule which God has already endorsed as binding, is a contradiction, and God is not one who contradicts Himself.
So it's a personal disposition.
Sadly, part of growing up is coming to the realisation that just because we want something, that does not give us the automatic right to it.
I would rather go down in history — anonymously — as someone who laboured within for a change in the law, in the full knowledge that such change will not come about in my lifetime, than someone who engages in such fruitless and pointless tactics, engaged in cheap theatrical stunts for the benefit of the ego and the media, by which to attempt to intimidate my fellows, and which achieve nothing but fuel the arguments of our critics.
The Catholic Church is the oldest surviving institution in the West, something that a few philosophers have noted is not without significance.
Be assured, had we followed the cultural trend, as so many demand we do, we would have vanished from the scene centuries ago.
But that's not what we do ... that's the assumption of those who don't know why we do what we do.Not following reason and sticking to old ways simply because of stubborness and an unwillingness to admit to any weaknesses in judgement is exaclty why the Catholic Church is slowly but surely vanishing.
Tradition is the knowledge. In the context of this discussion, the rest is cultural trivia and self-indulgence.God has given us knowledge for a reason and I'm sure that reason is not to ignore it out of tradition.
But that's not what we do ... that's the assumption of those who don't know why we do what we do.
Tradition is the knowledge. In the context of this discussion, the rest is cultural trivia and self-indulgence.
So have I ... and I know of lot of Catholics who think like you.I've been Catholic my entire life, I know exaclty what we do.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?Tradition is also why the Catholic Church endorsed slavery for centuries. But I suppose that was OK.
So have I ... and I know of lot of Catholics who think like you.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Tradtion is also why the Catholic Church endorsed slavery for centuries. But I suppose that was OK.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Really? Any evidence for that, or is that just a made-up fact?The Catholic church once taught that the world is flat.
We do that all the time ... it's called theology.Catholics must now be ready to take every doctrine they have and consider that they might be wrong
Oh dear ... please can you desist from this ill-informed propagandist and polemical attacks against my faith?(And the Catholic church has shown every intention not to take such a stand).
This will only work is the support they get is from the Catholic Church (the people of the church). It matters not if those outside the church support their efforts.pghguy,
The important thing is that we must provide understanding and reassurance to these three women as they deal with their struggles. They need to know that their efforts are not in vain, and that we support them all the way.
Understood Nick. However, the "greater" influence is in the "Catholics" like myself who also support them in their endeavors to become clergy. The more actual Catholics put pressure on the Vatican, the sooner change will come about.Q,
It depends on what we (those of us outside the Catholic church) are trying to accomplish. Are we trying to change the Catholic church? (No.) Are we trying to give the three women the emotional support and strength they need to face such unfairness and discrimination? (Yes.)
Actually Nick, I think what can be clearing demonstrated is the Catholic Church cannot be forced to change if She doesn't want to. We've had 2,000 years of people telling us how we should be.The Catholic Church has shown that it can change, but only when forced to do so.
I'm sure you are, but to be fair, you also think the Catholic Church preached that the earth was flat!(I am convinced that the Catholic Church would still be teaching that the sun revolves around the earth, if it hadn’t been forced to renounce such an idea due to outside pressure from society and science.)
As stated above, we don't respond to 'pressure', which is, after all, a form of coercion. We do respond to reason and sound debate, and such a debate is actually going on at the moment within Catholic circles, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.How much pressure will it take — from within and without — before it is forced to allow women to be ordained? Only time will tell.
Actually, I think the Catholic Church always listens ... what is evidently lacking is 'constructive criticism' and 'a loving tone of voice' ... I certainly see no evidence of it.But the more mature a person is, the more willing he or she is receive constructive criticism that is given in a harsh tone as well as in a loving tone of voice. The Catholic Church needs to rise to such a high level of maturity.