God to You
- Thread starter Etu Malku
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G!d is.
G!d is all there is.
G!d is the explanation for the unexplainable.
G!d isn't some larger than life being made in our image.
G!d is the theory of everything that scientists are seeking.
G!d isn't some passive agressive chemically imbalanced being tossing lightning bolts, floods and prosperity based on a spreadsheet of who is naughty and who is nice.
G!d isn't an entity that responds to "Yo G!d, I've got this prayer, you know I know you are our ultimate creator and did all this and saw that it was good....but this here lowly human sees that you made a mistake in this area right here that effects me and mine negatively, so if you'll do me the favor of fixing this, I promise I'll worship you to the end of my days exactly how you wish....well that is until tomorrow anyway, when I need the A on that test, or for you to fix my mom's colon, or lower the flood waters, or rain on my fields or let the Redskins beat the Cowboys...or ...or....or.....
G!d is all there is.
G!d is the explanation for the unexplainable.
G!d isn't some larger than life being made in our image.
G!d is the theory of everything that scientists are seeking.
G!d isn't some passive agressive chemically imbalanced being tossing lightning bolts, floods and prosperity based on a spreadsheet of who is naughty and who is nice.
G!d isn't an entity that responds to "Yo G!d, I've got this prayer, you know I know you are our ultimate creator and did all this and saw that it was good....but this here lowly human sees that you made a mistake in this area right here that effects me and mine negatively, so if you'll do me the favor of fixing this, I promise I'll worship you to the end of my days exactly how you wish....well that is until tomorrow anyway, when I need the A on that test, or for you to fix my mom's colon, or lower the flood waters, or rain on my fields or let the Redskins beat the Cowboys...or ...or....or.....
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I know that I don't know, but I have some suspicions.
Etu Malku
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My take is that what many refer to as god, for me is the objective universe and all its Laws & Principles, which I believe to be without an intelligent architect or mover, in a very Deist way I suppose.
I don't believe there to be a god.
I see the Universe as two part: objective and subjective
When atoning to the objective universe (godthing) One is aligning themselves with the natural Principles and Laws of the objective universe.
When One aligns with their subjective universe, One is developing their own creative paradigm (or at least they can be, not everyone will be) and in a sense become god over this creation.
I don't believe there to be a god.
I see the Universe as two part: objective and subjective
When atoning to the objective universe (godthing) One is aligning themselves with the natural Principles and Laws of the objective universe.
When One aligns with their subjective universe, One is developing their own creative paradigm (or at least they can be, not everyone will be) and in a sense become god over this creation.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
So you see god as a creative/transformative process, looking for an agent? (very Taoist, if so. What percentage does the agent want?
)
Etu Malku
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What do you mean by "agent"?So you see god as a creative/transformative process, looking for an agent? (very Taoist, if so. What percentage does the agent want?
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
doer........
Etu Malku
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Sorry to be difficult but I still don't follow you . . . say one more different way please!
Quite the same for this non theistic Christian...
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I'm here trying to understand you.
Since you are asking a question a theistic flavor, I will use a paradigm of a theistic flavor to explain:
"and God rested on the seventh day" --Genesis 2 (sabbath)
" 27 Then He told them, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." --Mark 2 (son of man often refers to humans)
In this case, the "agent" of the creative/transformation process would be a human being. (Are you yourself not also transformed when you write a song, paint a painting, sculpt a sculpture, and such?)So you see god as a creative/transformative process, looking for an agent? (very Taoist, if so. What percentage does the agent want?
Etu Malku
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Ok, thanks got it.I'm here trying to understand you.
Since you are asking a question a theistic flavor, I will use a paradigm of a theistic flavor to explain:
"and God rested on the seventh day" --Genesis 2 (sabbath)
" 27 Then He told them, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." --Mark 2 (son of man often refers to humans)
In this case, the "agent" of the creative/transformation process would be a human being. (Are you yourself not also transformed when you write a song, paint a painting, sculpt a sculpture, and such?)
Then no, I don't see it as such. An unintelligent physical process cannot 'look' for anything, it is the other way around, it is 'We' that look for 'It' and then label 'It' such (god).
I see Mankind doing what the other natural species do here (earth) and that is align with the natural processes (objective universe) and become One with Them, in a beautiful Flow together with these Principles.
Those of us on a LHP separate from these Principles/Laws (OU) and exercise our subjective universe, our imaginations, and our creative mind and begin to secure a removed placement from the natural/objective universe.
We call it divine mind, or collective consciousness....not a intelligent source of itself but of all creation.
Not God is loving, but G!d is love....G!d doesn't pull us toward any Him....but G!d is gravity....
Not God is loving, but G!d is love....G!d doesn't pull us toward any Him....but G!d is gravity....
God is Love.
God is that which causes, but is not Itself caused.
God is the Absolute, and being Absolute, God is equally the Infinite; being both the Absolute and the Infinite, intrinsically and without duality, God is also Perfect.
God is the First (Efficient) Cause and Final Cause (or End, Gk telos) of all existential being.
God bless,
Thomas
I would argue then that such a God is finite, contingent and relative, whilst most definitions of God say the opposite ... so I don't think your definition suits the many as you suppose.
OK
Can you show me subjectivity, outside the mind?
Is 'mind' a quality of the universe as you see it, or simply an electro-chemical-biological phenomena that many suppose ... a kind of unintended feedback in the system?
I'm not so sure. Even Buddhism rests of the experience of suffering ... I don't see suffering as a quality of the objective universe? Nor love, for that matter.
Effectively one is living in one's own 'little world', a world of their own invention, which is neither 'real' nor 'true' when compared to the objective universe?
Just some reflections from my world ...
God bless,
Thomas
Etu Malku
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Yes, I believe the physical/objective universe is indeed finite. But, my agnostic Self tells me that I don't know for sure!
If I understand your question right, I cannot, the subjective universe 'IS' the mind.
My belief is that the Mind is individual and a quality of the overall Universe (Universe consisting of both objective & subjective universes).
You see suffering not a part of the objective universe? In my understanding we have little choice in our OU (objective universe) but our SU is All about choices and freedom from the imposed 'Will' of the OU. There is no need to suffer or desire to suffer in our SU, but we have little choice in the OU it seems.
I think both OU & SU are as real as one another. Being a practicioner of the Left Hand Path and someone who actively performs magickal rituals, as well as being a music composer, I tend to exercise my SU quite a lot, to the point that some would see me as Mad/Insane almost . . . LOL! (maybe I am?). I agree with you that most of us live in our "own little World" but some of us live in a huge world full of imagined experiences that equals those experienced and at times trumps those of the OU.
Thank you Thomas for the depth of discussion
Hi Etu Malku —
I'm trying to see how you see the universe as 'subjective' yet without the subject, unless you're saying the universe itself as a contingent consciousness?
I can see an objective universe as made of things — from the nano- to the macro — this is a planet, that is a moon, this is a galaxy, that is ... etc.
What I'm not getting is what the universal subjectivity is, or at least is like?
I might well be being obtuse here ...
(Hopefully a real one )
Thomas
Not sure I get you ... do you see mind as independent of being, A kind of universal consciousness without any physical location (as opposed to my mind which is the product of my body, kind of thing)?
I'm trying to see how you see the universe as 'subjective' yet without the subject, unless you're saying the universe itself as a contingent consciousness?
I can see an objective universe as made of things — from the nano- to the macro — this is a planet, that is a moon, this is a galaxy, that is ... etc.
What I'm not getting is what the universal subjectivity is, or at least is like?
I might well be being obtuse here ...
Not sure I can agree with that. For me, the real always trumps the imaginary because it is, and the imaginary is not. A real gnat trumps an imaginary galaxy ...
Oh, God bless you.
(Hopefully a real one
)Thomas
Can I ask about that?
I have always assumed the RHP is for the good of whoever is in receipt of the magic, healing, etc. whereas I have always assumed the LHP is often detrimental to the receiver, being in effect the magician enforcing his will upon another against their own freedom ... so RHP works with nature, LHP is contrary to it ...
... so, if you were in a cowboy movies, the LHP types would wear black hats, be unshaven (even the women!
) look mean and nasty, and spit on the floor, whereas the RHP types are clean shaven, white hats, well-mannered and always get the girl (even the women (double sorry — that's a very old-fashioned response)) ...... I'm assuming, unless you're not every nice at all, that I've got rather a shallow/naïf image in mind ...
Thomas
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I guess a lot of people have this understanding.Can I ask about that?
I have always assumed the RHP is for the good of whoever is in receipt of the magic, healing, etc. whereas I have always assumed the LHP is often detrimental to the receiver, being in effect the magician enforcing his will upon another against their own freedom ... so RHP works with nature, LHP is contrary to it ...
... so, if you were in a cowboy movies, the LHP types would wear black hats, be unshaven (even the women!
... I'm assuming, unless you're not every nice at all, that I've got rather a shallow/naïf image in mind ...
Thomas
Let me explain the differences.
The RHP seeks to atone with the objective universe, the Laws & Principles that make up the physical universe or the god thing as most like to refer to it as. This enables them to be 'at' 'one' with the universe.
The LHP seeks to separate from this and towards apotheosis.
RHP = Thy Will Be Done
LHP = My Will Be Done
Neither paths are Good nor Evil, that would be up to the intent of the person.
**
I'm a very nice person**
Until you cross me
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Self-induced rapture? **raises one eyebrow**
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
There are different meanings ascribed to the left and to the right by different cultures. Here's Taoism's from the Tao Te Ching:
Chapter 31
From Explanation of the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate, Zhou Dunyi references one of the "Ten Wings," or commentary from the I Ching, the Book of Changes:
A strong military, a tool of misfortune
All things detest it
Therefore, those who possess the Tao avoid it
Honorable gentlemen, while at home, value the left
When deploying the military, value the right
The military is a tool of misfortune
Not the tool of honorable gentlemen
When using it out of necessity
Calm detachment should be above all
Victorious but without glory
Those who glorify
Are delighting in the killing
Those who delight in killing
Cannot achieve their ambitions upon the world
Auspicious events favor the left
Inauspicious events favor the right
The lieutenant general is positioned to the left
The major general is positioned to the right
We say that they are treated as if in a funeral
Those who have been killed
Should be mourned with sadness
Victory in war should be treated as a funeral
The left is assigned to the counselor (love), while the right is assigned to the enforcer (righteousness.)All things detest it
Therefore, those who possess the Tao avoid it
Honorable gentlemen, while at home, value the left
When deploying the military, value the right
The military is a tool of misfortune
Not the tool of honorable gentlemen
When using it out of necessity
Calm detachment should be above all
Victorious but without glory
Those who glorify
Are delighting in the killing
Those who delight in killing
Cannot achieve their ambitions upon the world
Auspicious events favor the left
Inauspicious events favor the right
The lieutenant general is positioned to the left
The major general is positioned to the right
We say that they are treated as if in a funeral
Those who have been killed
Should be mourned with sadness
Victory in war should be treated as a funeral
From Explanation of the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate, Zhou Dunyi references one of the "Ten Wings," or commentary from the I Ching, the Book of Changes:
"Therefore it is said, 'In representing the Dao of Heaven, one uses the terms Yin and Yang, and in representing the Dao of Earth, one uses the terms Soft and Hard, while in representing the Dao of Man, one uses the terms Love and Righteousness.'"
--Zhou Dunyi
--Zhou Dunyi