The Messiah — Theosophy’s view

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by Nick the Pilot, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    The World Teacher has always been here with us, if we just listen. Do we need a new interpreter? Perhaps, G!d and we will determine that.
     
  2. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Radar,

    According to Theosophy, we definitely need a World Teacher to periodically revisit the earth. We believe that organized religions always become distorted and perverted as the centuries go by, so we need a World teacher to periodically return and rescue the archaic truths that inevitably become lost inside of all organized, orthodox religions. Jesus' visit was not the first nor will it be the last.
     
  3. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Okay, who are some of your examples?
     
  4. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Radar,

    Here is the list of the Seven.

    Krakucchanda
    Kanakamuni
    Kashyapa
    Gautama
    Maitreya
    ???
    Dharmaprabhasa

    Some people (especially some Christian Theosophists) say Jesus was a reincarnation/avatara of Maitreya.

    Is there any reason to think The World Teacher (Jesus, according to Christians) has only come once to earth?
     
  5. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    No, but I was thinking of others.
     
  6. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Radar, I'm not sure who you are referring to, but according to Theosophy and non-orthodox Buddhism, these are the seven World Teachers ("Messiahs"), five of who have already appeared (which includes the debate as to whether Jesus was the fifth -- Maitreya -- or not).

    Who are you referring to?
     
  7. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Prior incarnations of the World Teacher, either directly, or otherwise in some Divine Embodiment of the 2nd-Ray {Love-Wisdom} TEACHING department of the Hierarchy include:
    1. Sri Krishna
    2. Orpheus
    3. Thoth-Hermes
    4. Zoroaster
    5. Quetzlcoatl
    6. Padmasambhava
    7. Sri Shankaracharya
    8. Gautama Buddha
    This is the short answer ... so the rest of my post is just commentary on a few of the figures that deserve special mention. [A second post I'm going to make is pretty much some continued rambling, but if anything jumps out, say so. :p]

    These are not in any particular order, as certainly the last one listed was the most evolved in some respects, though he was also an Arhan from a prior cycle of evolution ... hence not a true member of Earth's Humanity. The future Maitreya Buddha, currently our World Teacher and Bodhisattva, known worldwide by different names and certainly best of all to the Christians as Christ, figures as the "ELDEST IN A GREAT FAMILY OF BRETHREN" (Romans 8:29).

    The sixth figure listed, according to H.P. Blavatsky, was pretty much an immediate reincarnation of the Buddha {Shakyamuni} ... although you won't get a Buddhist to speak much to this point unless s/he has a Theosophical or otherwise esoteric background. For instance, we are talking about Tulku, about situations that apply only to Adepts of high degree, and in the Buddha's case it seems clear that either the being in question had either chosen Earth Service as the `Higher Way' for his soul to tread ... or else Sanat Kumara had requested the Buddha's Service temporarily [perhaps until the events of ~2100 years ago] until the current Bodhisattva (and next Buddha, Maitreya) could assume the title `Head of Hierarchy' {still held by the Buddha at the time of his ParaNirvana}. I hold stock in the latter notion, as it makes the most sense.

    Padmasambhava, says HPB, was not a human at all, except in the capacity as Jesus of Nazareth. Rightly considered, he was a human soul, but overshadowed by one of the Kumaras, other than Sanat Kumara [the Lord of the World]. I believe I have this right, unless I'm confusing him with Shankara Acharya. The legend, however, is that when they asked the Lotus-Born Padmasambhava {this is what his name means!} WHERE he came from, he pretty much replied, "I emanated" - or "I just appeared." And after all, relative to anything we understand, wouldn't that be true?

    Shambhala, after all, IS Nirvana, yet obviously considered in the context of an ACTIVE and Cosmic state of BEING [Consciousness-transcended, even] ... and frankly, this kind of talk loses me quickly. I am still quite convinced that I have MANY, many initiations to go before I grasp the basics of Identity, which is finally understood (or `Mastered') by Asekha Adepts. These no-Learners may or may not remain, as NirmanaKayas ... yet obviously the vast majority of us will proceed on to Sirius, only the required number staying to MINISTER to Humanity.

    This, then, is the Heavenly Prototype, Archetype or IDEAL of the Good Shepherd, the Steward, the Teacher and Saviour, embodied at the beginning of every astrological ERA by whichever SOUL among the 60 billion human Jivas is most fit. A lesser example would be the Forerunner, John the Baptist 2100 years ago, or H.P. Blavatsky in the 19th Century, each sent as the Wayshower and precursor to a Greater ONE of some degree or capacity. And, naturally, all the same ideas will apply to the Black Lodge, but this is pure glamour, and only an unfortunate tangent for some along the Way.

    The MESSIAH, then, is always coming to Guide us back to the Stars, helping us to make the Spiritual (and obviously psychological, symbolic) transit across the Inner Heavens, prior to our setting foot upon the Higher Way ... I mean, after all, if we haven't gotten that "We are Immortal" by now, we are behind the times, aren't we?

    As Socrates said, "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."

    Turn back the clock, and you will see the Piscean Savior in the well-known guise, the Galilean, walking the shores to gather his students from the Fishermen of the day, showing that the Heavenly Father casts His nets even by using the most humble and simple folk among us. Oannes, or Adapa, was the Babylonian and Sumerian FISH-MAN, as this motif is well known in the centuries prior to the birth of Jesus (in about 105BC, since Pisces' cusp was in 255BC, a full quarter of a millenium before scholars seem to acknowledge).

    Biblical history speaks to the Promised LAMB, or RAM, and anyone that knows his Zodiac will recognize the allusion. Moses was supposed to be helping the Israelites make the transition, but notice that they could not easily adopt the new Teachings (sound familiar?) and so they reverted to the Mithraism which had so dominated the Hellenic world for aeons (history increasingly shows how SHORT-SIGHTED we are, and thus in error as we fail to see the true antiquity, even of the `ancients' - such as the Greeks and Egyptians). I believe the bull Apis is the Tauran I have in mind.

    And clearly, those of us who know so well the Gospel story, and have come to celebrate the Christmas traditions, with their grafted yet also-ancient ways ... we resonate a bit more directly to the Idea and Ideal of the Savior as Piscean energies and Forces have helped us to grasp them. Yet remember, this HAD NOT YET OCCURRED (for a full 23,000 years, or almost one full turn of the precessional zodiac) during the times of Moses, the Hellenistic period, and the days of `ancient Egypt' (which was already at it's decline and close to downfall as far back as 10,000 years ago).

    The Egyptians had Horus, the falcon-headed God, clearly the 2nd Ray Savior-figure ... although the Mysteries taught in more detail that this department of our Spiritual Government (the Hierarchy) is as diverse and complex as any modern school system, this being the literal embodiment, on whatever scale and capacity, of the Heavenly Prototype - right amidst our society. The ecclesiasts and exoterists fairly well incarnate the 6th Ray equivalent, but even the 6th, 7th, 4th and 5th Rays of Hierarchy are synthesized or eventually transferred (in terms of the 7 Paths of Approach) by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Rays - or ASPECTS.

    Manly Palmer Hall, a 7th Ray Disciple of Master R, wrote a book called Twelve World Teachers: A summary of their lives and teachings. I read it a few years ago, and I heartily recommend it to anyone open to and interested in the possible latitude of the topic. Some of the souls listed, such as Plato and Confucius, are not necessarily meant to be literal or direct incarnations of the Bodhisattva Maitreya, but then, neither do most esotericists believe that HHDL has been reincarnated as ALL 14 Dalai Lamas. This does not prevent him, however, from being overshadowed by the 2nd RAY ... and such is the case with ALL who come forth as Avataras, whatever their capacity, along this line.
     
  8. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Another study would show a very different trend if we were looking at 1st Ray Emissaries of the Hierarchy, and only here & there will we see anything like a direct embodiment of the Manu ... while the matter is further complicated by the teaching that no true 1st Ray souls yet exist, or at least in incarnation on our planet. We're just not ready yet. That time, perhaps, is not so far off - if we can get ahold of ourselves? I dunno. {Still, an Egyptian Pharoah reincarnated now leads the American people, with direct Hierarchical influence and guidance ... yet the people, once again, would have their BARABBAS if they could. We shall see.}

    Great artists, however, along the 4th line, some coming as incarnations of the RAY ... can probably be acknowledged fairly easily, if we take a look. The same for scientists, of the 5th Ray, and even - dare we consider it - financiers and bankers along the 7th. Often we are blinded to what is really going on around us, only because we have grown so accustomed to looking for something else, or some kind of flash in the heavens. Aquarian energies may already be several decades in their rightful influence, or more than a full century by the Samaritan cycle which HPB speaks of.

    What does this mean for us about the Messiah, as we consider the notion from a Theosophical perspective? I do not believe in shutting doors, simply because we're "not sure," or maybe not quite ready to entertain the NEW teachings on the matter. If they (these ideas, or some of them) are not for us, we will perhaps know it, but how are we to decide whether we're just being recalcitrant, or whether maybe the conceptual framework we're currently working with is adequate overall, and in little need of expansion?

    So far, I just share what works for me, although I am more partial to the presentation which Alice Bailey gave, so that influences how I see everything else. The Master DK, for example, set out to provide materials for disciples in the New Era ~ I will presume along 2nd Ray lines, especially, since His Ashram is on this Ray ~ but He did not complete the project with H.P. Blavatsky. The work with Alice Bailey, occupying 30 years and concluding in 1949, was the `2nd installment.' Some students still look for a third ... and I'm sure others are certain they have found it.

    But Master DK is certainly not the World Teacher, even while the Reappearance would not be as it is without His Contribution. Those interested should read the `Statement by the Tibetan' placed in the front of every publication through Alice Bailey (after a certain year, now in all of them). This speaks volumes to the question of perspective, and I especially like that the Tibetan states, "All are disciples, from the humblest aspirant up to and beyond the Christ Himself ..."

    If we can accept this, and remember - even just INTUIT - the Inner signifance of the Festival of Lights, then already we are once again on the Right Track and hopefully smiling in contentment. It is those who worry (and I am one of them, when I am forgetful or uncollected), who are the most pitiable. Concerned for the "souls of others," I wonder if they have any real grasp at all. They mean well, and I smile when I consider that. But their day is well ahead. And time is lost, when they beat their heads against the wall, trying to figure out why the world can't see!

    Perhaps the world already knows its Savior, as have every people in every day and age, on every continent, in every community, each group or individual according to capacity. Growth is slow, but sure, and I seem to remember a Biblical verse which speaks to this: Romans 8:22.

    The Savior, as some Theosophists will say, exists within all of us, as within all of Nature, equally if not more so on every planet and Star within the Heavens. We always need to ask ourselves if it might be a question of scale. Planets have their Christ, yet so too must the Christ dwell within each and every one of us, else the former could not do His Work!



    St. Paul refers to this Christ within as the "Hope of Glory," which was well known in the Egyptian Mysteries and born into the Heart of the candidate chrestos at Initiation. Alice Bailey herself (without Master DK's dictation) wrote a book called From Bethlehem to Calvary which outlines the 5 Great Events in the life of the Initiate Jesus, symbolizing every human soul's spiritual progress toward the end of the long series of incarnations. These are, in order:
    1. The Birth (of the Christ, within the Heart)
    2. The Baptism (being the purification of the personality vehicles)
    3. The Transfiguration (of the threefold personality into ONE instrument of Service)
    4. The Renunciation (whereby the lower man "dies" to self completely)
    5. The Resurrection/Ascension (which prepares us to tread `The Higher Way')
    The Higher Way, however, will surely not leave Christ or Christs behind, for the 2nd ASPECT is something much larger than our little Earth, even larger than the 2nd Ray REGENT of the System, B'el-Jupiter. The Solar Lord of our 2nd Ray System ("God IS Love") is Christ to ALL of the planets, in one sense, but even more so are we `Little Brother' to our vastly Greater Older Brother, SIRIUS. The Magi knew this, enough at least to FOLLOW the Cosmic Christ to the future embodiment of the same, on EARTH.

    Lights can be bright, sometimes the things revealed aren't exactly what we expect(ed) or would want ... but sooner or later it must be acknowledged, reckoned with, and matter(s) set straight - where this is necessary or occultly desirable.

    Preparing Humanity to tread the higher way, gradually and with such transformational `staying power' that the New Civilization and its accompanying Government and Culture can fully and properly come into existence ... this, surely, is the most obvious of Christ's true Mission as Aquarian WORLD SAVIOR. This, every esotericist knows, regardless of his schooling and background, or specific allegiances (meaning Ray disposition, Service preferences & Calling or choice of discipline, etc.).

    This may seem a difficult time for us, and it certainly is, yet we are very much still laying the Foundation and Preparing the Way, as it is occultly called, such that the Building of the Temple will likely come into fruition (or objective, more obvious realization) in decades ahead. This really just means we should redouble our effort, rededicate ourselves to the difficult tasks that still await, and continue to be grateful that we are able to incarnate during this Awakening for Humanity, the Becoming of a SACRED PLANET.

    Venus will continue to guide, Uranus influences via Aquarius, and Mercury provides the stability and balance that Mercury (planet of the Buddha and Christs) always has ... while Martian and other elements give us the friction and challenge we need, without which no human Soul can graduate, and emerge a JivanMukta.

    Christ, as other Masters, is surely one of the Greatest Astrologers ever to emerge from our Planetary School (I mean, yes? When you stop and think about it?) ... so I'd sure like to keep pursuing the Idea (and Ideals) of the Same as He has come to us (in whatever forms) down through the Ages, in all of the Signs. The SPHINX, folks, the SPHINX. Guards something, n'est pas? Built in Leo, but many, MANY turns ago on the Greater Wheel.

    The Ancients sometimes forgot more, in one generation, than we have ever learned - even with all our modern science and technology - in several. I think just now we're starting to see some of the parallels, and realize what Treasures were revealed in the Vedas and Eastern treatises. Then we have the Hermetic and Western line, both converging - or starting to - in the Present Age. Hubris, of course, shall get the best of us, if we let it.

    TWO full Root Races are yet to run their course ... and not even the 6th sub-Race of the 5th has come into being. Christ will come again, and again, and again, as always. When this fact is better grasped, and the different world religions allow each other to simply, peacefully Co-Exist ... THEN the Planet will see a time of progress as we have not for some time. I still wonder what may occur in 5 or 600 years. But one thing's for sure: If we sit around on our hands, less will get done, and that which must inevitably occur will take longer.

    So, the true TheosoPHERs, as one wonderful soul put it to me, are the DOers ... and they already know that SERVICE is both Crown and Key. Meditation and Study combine with Service to form the triple cornerstone on the Path of Discipleship ... and this we have been taught now for so many decades that none of us is alive who first heard it. Then again, I'm pretty sure the Sophia is indeed without beginning or end, such that those who would divide Christ from the Wisdom, just haven't yet stopped to THINK how absurd that sounds.

    The best part of all this is, when too many fancy philosophical words or concepts start to creep in, we can always help get each other back on track, simply by asking, "what do you mean by __?" or choosing to focus in on a particular point. The dialogue has gone on since Man's Spirit first began its gradual descent into incarnation ... and I'll be damned if some kind of minor clusterf*~ at the intersection of Enlightenment and Salvation is going to hold up all of Human Progress in the name of some hubcap manufacturer or license plate agency.

    You see, we really are Dust in the Wind. And it's humbling to accept - from Stardust, back to Stardust - isn't it?

    All are but parts of one stupendous whole,
    Whose body Nature is, and God the soul.

    If the theologian wants to identify `God' with any part of God's creation, I will be the first to say, "Let's take God out of that box," although I also expect to be the last to be sitting in contemplation ... of just what that Leaves. ;)

    Christ can always be thought of as the Bridging Principle, or 2nd Aspect, and while this may be an oversimplification, it will also serve to get us back on track ... because Theosophy tries to show us how EVERYTHING FITS TOGETHER, and RIGHTLY SO, since a Loving, Wise, Powerful Deity would surely not have it any other way. More than that, Theosophy reminds us that even when things seem to be amiss in the world of forms (maya, glamour, illusion) ... nevertheless, there IS a Divine Plan, and in this, CHRIST, the Messiah or World Teacher remains CUSTODIAN - for the entire Human & Angelic Evolution. The other members of Hierarchy assist the World Teacher in this capacity, on whatever Ray Lines ... yet the Hieararchy as a whole is considered the Heart Center of our Planetary Being, with Christ as the embodiment of Love, par excellence. This, we are told, has never occurred in human history - on the scale that was achieved thanks to the Loving Service of the Nazarene. Esoterically, Jesus really is the Reason for the Season.

    Namaskar
     
  9. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    I did not hink Theosophy was quite as "defined by the Word" as Nick's answer indicated. I am reading deeper on it. Is Andrew's response within the tent of Theosophy?
     
  10. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Radar, I am going to be diplomatic and say that I do not recognize some of Andrew's ideas as being Theosophical. Hopefully, Andrew has read some texts I have yet to read.

    Radar, what do you mean by "defined by the Word"?

    Hey, Andrew, do you have a quote from Balvatsky that says "The sixth figure listed [Padmasambhava] according to H.P. Blavatsky, was pretty much an immediate reincarnation of the Buddha {Shakyamuni}"? The Theosophical Glossary

    D <-- a link

    has Dharmaprabhasa as the seventh Buddha.

    And do you have a quote placing Jesus as a reincarnation of Padmasambhava?
     
  11. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Nick,

    Screwed up this I did the order of ... since I messed with the list a couple of times. Actually it should read that the 7th figure, Shankaracharya, was the rebirth of Shakyamuni. This should not be considered the "next Buddha." It was the SAME MAN. But this begs the question: What is the relationship of MANAS to the "rest of us," astral, physical, Buddhic and Atmic. And remember, we are a trinity of ternaries. The personality reflects the Spiritual Triad, yet the latter incarnates the Triune Monad on a higher turn of the spiral ... the Monad itself a spark of the Divine (TRINITY!).

    So to say that the Buddha reincarnated pretty much soon after (fifty years) his own death, is kind of a tangent to Theosophy's take on the Messiah, but since CHRISTOS is a Spiritual PRINCIPLE for Theosophists more so than any one historical Incarnation of the same, I think it's worth going into it a bit. HPB discusses it on page 377 forward in the Secret Doctrine, Vol. 3, as well as elsewhere in this text. There is quite a bit of discussion of the Buddha Shakyamuni, as this subject holds the key to a good deal of related understanding (the Principles, the rebirth of individual Jivas, such as that of Siddharta Gautama, prior to and subsequent to THAT lifetime).

    The mistake, as some would agree, is to unduly glamorize the lives of the Great Ones ... and even the subject seems unrescuable from this kind of treatment. Still, I like to turn over a new leaf once in a blue moon.

    Padmasambhava incarnated several centuries later, in Tibet, and sought to reform the native sorcery of the region by kind of grafting onto it something of the true Dharma. This may seem irreverent, especially to devoted students of the Bon traditions, but anyone versed in the Mahatama Letters will know that this is not how Buddhas tend to act. The incarnation as Padmasambhava, however, was not the Buddha Shakyamuni, or at least not strictly so, as one of the Pratyeka Buddhas, or Buddhas of Activity (future Lords of the World on Mercury) was the overshadowing `Tulku' (not truly Tulku, but something related, on a much higher turn of the spiral). The clue is the reference to "a RAY" of Sanat Kumara, keeping in mind how Arupa these levels of being are, with SK's focus - and that of the other Kumaras - being on the highest planes of our Planetary System, where Human evolution does not even yet occur!

    It's complicated, this subject, only by the fact that Theosophical (and related esoteric) Teachings do treat our Spiritual Constitution as an amalgam of varying parts, rather than one, simple unit. St. Paul does the same in the Christian tradition, and we will see the same anywhere else we look. Simplification is always best, but once we grab hold of the rabbit, it's down the hole we go ...

    You will find what you're looking for on Padmasambhava, with references to Jesus, in Volume 14 of the Collected Works of HPB, on pages 382 forward. As you will see, the reference to Jesus is only in passing, as the latter is a high Adept, now a Chohan and head of the 6th Ray of Devotion (see the chart given by C.W. Leadbeater, which he himself `borrowed' from Master DK, via Alice Bailey's book, Initiation Human and Solar - published in 1919, well before CWL's Masters and the Path!).

    You may also want to look at pages 403-407 of the same volume, on the Reincarnations of Gautama Buddha. Again, all of this is useful is we are able to accept that the EGO, or SOUL of Gautama Buddha is what is being studied ... inasmuch as SOMETHING does reincarnate. Buddhists will get all nitpicky and talk about the bundle of attributes, or Skandhas, but hey, it's not like this things just magically gel from out of nowhere, especially when we consider the Causal Body, or objetification of the THREAD (sic) of Continuity (Sutratma) between all of our incarnations. The Antahkarana, or Consciousness thread, however, has more to do with the Christ in the sense of Coming One, or Messiah, as this focuses upon the BRIDGE in consciousness which we are building with the Higher Self (and vice versa, thankfully so).

    Jesus, as I have politely tried to clarify, is pointed out both in Theosophical Teachings as well as by Alice Bailey and others as a completely different EGO, or reincarnating Soul, than The Christ, or Maitreya. The latter appeared as Sri Krishna, and Master DK mentions one more obscure incarnation (in exactly these words) which none of us would recognize. The implication, to me, is that we are looking at a Soul of somewhat unique accomlplishments (the FIRST of true, Lemurian Humanity to reach THE GOAL - vs. those who later came in from earlier cycles, or the BUDDHA, who comes to us from the Moon Chain).

    Jesus of Nazareth, on the other hand, being a high Initiate even in his birth as the Galilean, had already appeared twice before in Biblical history, once as Joshua, Son of Nun, right beside Moses and Aaron, thus a direct lineage-holder in this most ancient and esoteric of traditions ... plus as the High Priest Joshua, made Initiate as related by Zechariah. The incarnation of Jesus in 105BC comes 150 years after the cusp of Pisces, just as the current Reappearance of the Christ has yet to technically, fully occur, even after 111 years of Aquarius!

    Jesus, of course, didn't get to fulfil the Ministry that might have been, although the esoteric tradition is that after 3 years of teaching in the physical body, he did manage to continue appearing to the Apostles for another 30, from subtle world. Such, as we know well, is by this point the Overshadowing PRESENCE of what Christians call the 2nd Person of the Trinity, and while esotericists recognize that this is relative, both to our little planet and even to the current STAGE of our evolution (which prevents certain Greater recognitions) ... we also know, or can study and trace, the origins of the Blue Lodge of Masonry right to the Great Lodge on Sirius.

    Sirius, the Cosmic Christ, reaches us with its influence in numerous ways, yet Venus (having REACHED her goal early, spiritually speaking, and thus being an Adept among planets) has a similiar relation to Earth, as Sirius does to our entire Solar LOGOS. Sirius essentially IS the Soul of our System, or its overshadowing Christ Principle (more technically, the Spiritual Triad). Its influence also reaches our planet directly through the Hierarchy, via the Solar Lord, without going through Shambhala, as other Cosmic Energies do. This still gets my attention every time I read it.


    Jesus did reincarnate, of course, first as Appollonius of Tyana ... whose life was discussed by HPB, later by the Tibetan, also by Master M. in the Agni Yoga Teachings, and so forth. This was the life in which Jesus took the Asekha Adept Initiation (Ascencsion, or 5th) ... later followed by an incarnation (or overshadowing?) of the Indian Saint, Sri Ramanuja Acharya. CWL mentions this, and I think I have noted other references ... but not necesarily Alice Bailey.

    Incidentally, DK does tell us that Master J. overshadowed and Inspired the Prophet Mohammed, very much as the Christ Himself had earlier done with the Initiate Jesus. And is not Islam thoroughly a 6th Ray religious system? It is heavy on the discipline and has the martial flare of the Nazarene Adept, while the fanatical element is perhaps the most in excess of all the religions at this point, certainly of the Three Religions of the Book.

    Theosphy's message regarding the Messiah (hence, the Messiah's own Message, or the Gospel Itself, from an esoteric angle) seems to include an opportunity to learn how we progress spiritually by studying how the Great Ones have done exactly the same thing. How did the Masters handle such and such a particular situation? What did or would they do if such and such arose? Essentially, WW the Master Do, where the Master can be practically any of the several dozen Whom students have been able to learn about in recent decades or centures. This is quite like the WWJD bumper sticker and idea, perhaps just a broader application. Fine, the Christian will be lost if s/he attempt the same path, or spiritual approach (can Pythagoras lead me to the Father, to Salvation, s/he may ask?) ... yet for those of us who can see and trace the line of incarnations, why not? The answer may be: YES, every bit as much as any of the Great Ones, provided we continue our study, and learn Who and what the Masters truly are, and Who and what they are not! ;)

    So, I would say it DOES make all the difference in the world, if Jesus and the Christ were two different individuals. History, for reasons that should be obvious, knows them as ONE. It is an oversight which offends neither party, nor are they so diversified in their Work, at this point for there to be an impact (for the esoteric work is ONE WORK, even while Christ's Ashram is the whole Hierarchy, with ALL the Masters as His direct Apostles, some of the original Biblical disciples being some real clods, if you ask me). The Tibetan refers to these as the golden and silver threads of Christianity, which may one day be disentangled. By then, we may have been able to grasp just how true it is that Truth is One, Paths are Many.

    I consider him who cannot see his Brother approaching the same central spiritual Source (Christ, from and at one vantage point or angle), though by different means ... still a bit blind. This is not as simple as crying "Lord, Lord" in another language, for there the differences may begin, yet a Mass can be conducted in a dozen languages and still be essentially the same Divine Communion (in the broader sense, not just this one Sacrament). Christ Himself tells us though, many of us who seek Him later will realize our errors, when He says, "I did not know you."

    How clear the meaning of this should be, yet how confused the interpretation apparently is, among Christendom. I doubt Theosphists will miss a beat. It is not that I enjoy making this distinction. I doubt Master J. is thrilled about it, either. :(

    So to study the Christ, or Messiah of Theosophy, is to open our doors to EVERY or ANY Tradition, of whatever date in antiquity, or modernity, which can throw Light upon the subject and Reality in question. Words typed on a forum in 2011, off the cuff, can assist in our exploration, perhaps ... while mostly I regard it (with my background) as a chance to shift around a little, maybe grow especially uncomfortable in my seat, and perhaps see an opportunity to do something Right, or Good, or better, or useful.

    I'm in a pretty bad frame of mind, so I apologize, but there is always a RAY. That, upon which EVERY Human Soul exists (one of the 7), might be considered the true CHRISTOS, if we want to take that avenue of inquiry ... regardless of which Ray of Approach we happen to be most influence by. Ray 2, naturally, expressing the 2nd Aspect, will show forth especially CLARION in this 2nd Ray Solar System, no matter what happens during the long, long cycle (right, Nick?) of a Solar Lord's Incarnation. But one doesn't need to be on the 2nd Ray to find his way back to the Father's House, just as all 7 Rays influence every single human being, and also every particle of substance.

    Poof! Whatdoiknow. ;):p:)

    pip-pip-cheerio!
     
  12. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Andrew,

    Thanks for those quotes and page numbers. I can take a look at them when I get some time. (I teach at a college, and we are right in the middle of semester final exams.)
     

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