I said:
Interesting experience - and welcome to CR, Lady Selune. :)

Echoes...ah, now that in itself is a very interesting idea. :)
I use that term for lack of a better one to be honest. Not everything that we might preceive as spirits are really that. Its more of an echo of something that once happened. They can be there because a spirit is tormenting itself and needs the surrounding to compelte the scene. Such as in the case of the woman I spoke of earlier, the childs spirit was not really there, it was an echo of what brought her to be there and needed to compelete the scene for her.
alexa said:
Hi Lady_Selune,

In my opinion, you do have a special gift. And no, not every one can see them, only those opened to the source. I mean, a person interested only for money, has no chance to interect with a spirit, at least not in the way he would expect to. You know you have to open your heart to listen them.

I can only feel their presence in an awaken state and sometimes I can see them in my dreams.

Sorry, I have to go now.

See you soon,

Alexa :)
Thank you for your kind words. But you did say it your, only those that are opened to the source. Here is where I see that everyoen has the ability to do it, most just don't for a varitey of reasons. The most common reason begin that as we begin to mature into adulthood we are told that we must put away childish things. This includes believeing in spirits or things that go bump in the night.
Greed and false hope

Having read many of the replies here, I feel the need to add this.

As a shaman, I do not sell my services to anyone. If and when I can help someone I am happy to do it. Mainly because it is the path that I walk and like with any path there are scared duties that simply must be performed. I won't lie and say that I have never accepted money, I have. It was always after the fact and only from those that understood the why of it. In old times, shamans of my tribe were supposed totally by the tribe. Their services were not paid for really it was more of the idea that the tribe would take care of the shaman and in turn the shaman would take care of them.

I am not in any sense a wealthy woman, heheh like most I live from pay check to pay check. It would be nice if the tribe were able to support me, it would certainly give me the time to pursue some of the things that I would dearly like to. However, these are not the old days, and most in the tribe have lost thier respect of those ways. When I accept money or other types of payment it is only from those that understand the old ways and can afford to do so. I have on occassion accepted payment for people outside of the tribe. Again, it was always after the fact and only if I was able to really help them. I never ask anyone for payment, that is jsut not my way.

Like all religions (or beleif systems) we shamans have those amoung us that are not really shamans. The want to bes more often then not ask for payment in advance and promise nothing in return. They say that the "spirits" might not be willing to help today or are unable to help, in a few cases I have heard that they are unable to help till more cash has exchanged hands.

This time of thing is to me worst then just stealing. It is granting the seeker a false hope for the sake of greed. How horrible a thing! I have read the books out there, just for the sake of knowing whats in them really. I have to admit to getting a chuckle from many of them and on ocassion finding one or two that really had good information and advice to offer. On one occasion an offer was made to me to join up with one of these want to be shamans. I was actually sorta of shocked, he really thought what I was doing what a trick some how and want me to teach him how to fool people the way I did.

If you really seek knowledge or help, my advice is to seek out someone who does not ask for payment, and if nothing else does not accept payment till the "job" is done.
Re: indians?

PersonaNonGrata said:
sawadee all,

the only sprit seeing/interacting people i believe were the native-indians in america, though i have no proof in that, i can sense that being united with the nature should have opened the way to communicate with some unidentified earthly objects (UEO).
Althought I am as you put it native america, I would by no means say that only my people can see them. Yes, being a part of nature and not seeking to control it does help open the path, but it is not the only way by any means.

PersonaNonGrata said:
who decides these spirits will get in touch with? are they here with us always/ do they have some kind of special places in these grounds? created by god itself? has any religion other then islam referred to these UEOs? (i have stated somewhere in this forum that quran says there are spritis that can be contacted)
dogs barking? here whenever the morning prayer calls most dogs howl... sounds scary to tell the truth..

Both the personal that is listening and the spirit that seek to give a message decide. They are always here and there are special places. For example, White Mountian in Az. is very special to my people, we talk to our ancestors and the spirit that seek to guide us there. Personally, I do not pursume to know who created these spirits, there are a lot of theories, my court is still out on most of them. I do know how some of these spirits come to be created as I have posted earlier. Most earth based religions refer to spirits of some type. I think (and if I am wrong someone please correct me) that even Christians refer to the holy ghost and other types of spirits as well. As far as the dogs barking, one must first understand and listen to thier language to know the difference. I have heard dogs hearld the passing of a human soul, it is indeed a terrifying sound. But on the other hand I have hear dogs raise thier voices to sing with the humans, it is actually considered proper pack behavior by most dogs.

PersonaNonGrata said:
i dont know really, on my physicall and spritual journey i have done in s.e.asia for 2 years i have called them.. in the small mountain villages, in the jungles of cambodia, in the island of koh sahmed, in the lonely pansion near the cambodian border, what i got was pure loneliness and the voice of my own brain. i wanted a voice, a small sign that could help me clear out everything i have on mind.
PersonaNonGrata said:
i wasnt the right guy? magical words had to be said? 2 years of inside journey is not enuff, what if i saw/hear them? those questions are remained there as ive known that sprits even they do exist i didnt see them, i didnt sense them..

respectfully yours. erai
I can not say if you are the right guy or not. I can say that words are no more then a tool to focus the mind. They are many of us that have moved beyon dhte need of words and rites to focus our intentions, however, we when teach, we do teach those words and rites as a tool. It is very important to understand one's self. But perhaps now that you know yourself you might want to look outside of your self. You seek to communicate, communication is a two way street and can not happen when you are seeking only answers within yourself. What happens if and when you see or hear them, well that is up to the knowledge that you seek and what you are given and most importantly what you do with that knowledge.
hey all

i do definately believe in ghosts, something my peers and family find odd. i've been to certain places that give me (and others with me) a feeling of danger or malignancy, so i suppose places can have their ghosts, too. i've also had the feeling of being watched, and it is a different feeling from self-awareness.
;) I have been studying this thread, and don't often visit because of pressure from work, but really...?
I think Brian said as much by saying he doesn't normally think too much about it! (in spite of having thought he was being watched sometimes)

Spirits are simply an individual believing that 'something' might be 'there'. It is an aspect of an individual's affective nature and nurture.
It is like Faith itself; something basically irrational, because it demands nothing more than personal validations and actually doesn't, (because it cannot) seek validations in the material world beyond self.
Faith, or Spirits, are not (as it has been shown in scientific investigations) of the domain of the cognitive, the reasonable and rational.

If someone likes to believe in 'Spirits', that's fine, but if there was proof beyond oneself, there would be no necessity for such a discussion.

We validate such belief concepts for ourselves, or not, and that is surely the most we can say?
Hi Blue and welcome to CR !:)

Spirits are energetical prints and they are around us even if we like it or not. Some of us can sense thier presence and for the others is only fiction.

May I ask you what are the scientific investigations you are talking about ?
alexa said:
Hi Blue and welcome to CR !:)

Spirits are energetical prints and they are around us even if we like it or not. Some of us can sense thier presence and for the others is only fiction.

May I ask you what are the scientific investigations you are talking about ?
Hi Alexa,

Thankyou for the welcome, but I am in fact a very old member going back to Brian's founding of this site!

As to your comments, I see no problem with what you say abvout them being 'energetical prints' and being 'around us', but there is absolutely no scientific basis for such comments, as you indeed imply when you say 'some of us sense their presence'. Well... if you do, you do, but you are only expressing a personal and affective view on the basis of your affective nature and nurture. You offer no rational explanation by saying they are 'energetical prints'. That's just a subjective opinion.

As to the scientific investigations of claimed 'spirit' phenomena, the evidence is overwhelming. ALL properly conducted research, including some at my own University, have produced NO evidence for 'energetical prints'. The ideas of stones in building retaining the imprints, like some kind of tape or video recording has just not been proven... and if they were, that would not prove the existence of indepepndently self directing 'spirits'.
If you want to view any scientific investigations of 'Spirits' please refer to Google and look particularly at authentic research conducted by respected Universities... there are masses of references to follow up.

I was concerned, when much younger, with an actual investigation concerning a young girl, that reached the National Press. 13 years after the events, which the family claimed were evidence of 'Spirits', the young girl came forward and admitted it had all been a 'set-up', just as I had said at the time, though I couldn't, at the time disprove all the claimed phenomena.

And thanks again for the belated Welcome! lol;)
Hi Blue and nice to meet you ! :)

I'm afraid I saw only the new member title under your user name and the number of posts. Sorry about that.

What do you think about what Quahom1 said in his post #22 for this thread ?