which is a true DESTINY ?

Discussion in 'Sikhism' started by tony, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. tony

    tony New Member

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    hello everyone
    some says earth is a suffering place, and they will make their destiny to heaven? some says there is a big devil always tempting human beings on earth so they make their destiny to a so called heaven escaping from the clutches of the devil? some say getting liberated from cycles of birth and death is a real salvation? i hope all members on this forum can come together and discuss on this subject?
     
  2. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    True destiny is realization of truth.

    Heaven is naught but greed.
    Suffering is naught but creating your own hell.
    The devil is YOU if you insist on idealistic extremes.
    Liberation is to realize all of this is a drama.
    All of your ideals would lead to an utterly boring existence.
    What you think you are is merely a character in this place.
    Find out who the true actor is.
    This is ultimately every souls destiny.
     
  3. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Funny, tony, the answer I believe is with you now. Let me call it Zen Buddhism or Ch'an Christianity. In a sudden moment one goes beyond. "Within our mind there is a buddha, and that buddah that is within is the real Buddha. If Buddha is not to be sought within our mind, where then shall we find the real Buddha? Doubt not that the real Buddha is within your mind, apart from which nothing can exist." "When all my hopes in [priests] and in all men were gone, so that I had nothing outwardly to help me, nor could I tell what to do, then, oh, then, I heard a voice which said, 'There is one, even Christ Jesus, that can speak to thy condition,' and when I heard it my heart did leap for joy. Thus when God doth work, who shall hinder it? And this I knew experimentally."

    The first is from Hui-neng, 36th and last directly appointed Buddhist Patriarch. The latter is from George Fox, 1st and greatest Friend. IMHO they say the same thing. The kingdom is here, it is just a matter of awakening to it.
     
  4. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Zen and Ch'an are merely results of Dhyan trying to be pronounced in different langauges, untranslated.

    Why bring in Buddhism or Christianity? Buddha was not a Buddhist, Jesus was not a Christian.
    These men have both simply rebelled against the status quo, and we have made them the status quo instead... it is simply stupid.
    This is merely the state when a religion dies, now only the fanatics are there, clinging to the corpse.

    These are not men of import, but man has made them important... you are not different from them, you just don't realize it. Realize it, and meditation can help, but who is the meditator? This is really what you should seek to discover, all else is trivia.
     
  5. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Ah, Lunitik, you miss the point. Zen, Ch'an, BUddhism, and Christianity are just words to indicate what is beyond the words. I believe you will find (if you bother to read my reply above) that I purposefully did not use them as "the status quo" (another misread caused by your inability to let go of your preconceptions). It is irrelevant whether or not Buddha was a Buddhist or Christ was a Christian--totally a straw-man.

    Nice restatement of "Love thy neighbor as thyself, all the rest is commentary" (Reb Akiva). However, IMHO, all the rest is not trivia. Any of that trivia at any time can awaken us to the reality Hui-Neng and George Fox experienced. Sitting alone and cold on top of a mountain is just not anything that appeals to me.
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    No, the trivia fills your head, feeds your ego... it is NOT going to help.

    What will help is going deeply into the opposites/complimentaries and seeing what is the nature of them all... it doesn't just happen, you have to create a milieu which permits it.

    I am not saying you have to renounce the world, how will you do it? Atop the mountain you are still in the world, you have only renounced people. Why will you do it? Then you cannot share what you have found, you are just being a recluse.

    Buddhism is dead, Christianity is dead, that is why I am so adamant against it, assigning these labels is going to be harmful - it again adds to your ego: "I am a Buddhist". You have to find where the "I" arises from, who it is that says "I am" even before the activity or identity arises, otherwise you are going to miss. There remain Buddhists and Christians in the world, but they simply debate, they use these titles as a way to strengthen their ego, to see who is most knowledgeable. It is not going to create a Christ, it is not going to create a Buddha, and what else is the goal?

    It is strange you go on assuming you know better when you have not reached, your words are mere speculation because you have not attained. I am speaking from experience, from going beyond myself, why does your ego continue to reject this? There is only one way to know whether I speak the truth, and that is to try it yourself, go with determination into my devices and see what happens... do not pretend you know better though, do not insist these men you voice know better, at most they know the same.
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    The problem is, I am interactive, you accept the book as authoritative, but you cannot accept direct commentary on your own interpretation of a text.

    I do not depend on any text, it is my own experience that I speak on.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I believe if you aren't happy with what you have you won't be happy with what you get, or what you wish for, or what you dream of.

    Hell on earth? Heaven in earth I say.

    A proving ground, maybe.

    I think we are all one, I think our destiny is to understand that and by that understanding effectively return to the one.

    Simplistically I look at it as a parent often does with a child. "If you don't learn to take care of the toys you've got you won't get any more."

    We've been given this vehicle, our bodies.

    We've been given these other folks to play with.

    And this big blue ball to live on.

    When we learn to take care of these three toys....we'll get some more.
     
  9. tony

    tony New Member

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    yes true heaven and hell is actually on earth. the highest form of heaven is to be given a chance to be born as a human being. thru human birth you will get what we say a FREE WILL, and a chance to run after the lord s grace. after all the good actions life after life, now i had be given a chance to be born as a human being, so now is for me to run after the lord s grace to earn salvation. so doing goodness and badness is not enough during human birth. because both will take you back to human birth again, got stuck in the maya s rotating wheel.
     
  10. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercur├Žn

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    I don't adhere to a heaven or hell in the classical sense, but I do know that it is NOT the Destination but the Journey which is most important.
     

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