the resurrection of the body & the life of the world-to-come

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by salishan, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,570
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Yes ... it's still a body.

    I rather contend with the notion that escaping this world in pursuit of a spiritual otherworld is the aim of Christianity. It's not.

    Perfection of man can only happen in this world. To be human is to be spirit and matter — a spiritual being is not a human being, whereas a human being is a spiritual being — most miss that point.

    Faith is God is shown by resting in the content of Scripture. You seem to proclaim a lot of things that are not derived nor proven by Scripture?

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  2. donnann

    donnann Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isnt it about the attainment of a higher state of being. An immortal body that is one with spirit and soul but made up of more spirit ? I call that body the crystal body consisting of nothing but whole body consciousness. Chakras are points of union but to me this body is like opening up the flood gates to those points so that the whole body is that light.
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,570
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Well 'popular' notions would have ideas of pseudo-angelic beings, etc ... but the orthodox line is no.

    After God, there is no higher state of being than man, who is composed of spirit, soul and matter, and thus all created natures are summed up, as it were, in human nature.

    Christianity is about participation in the Divine Life by filiation (sonship by adoption).

    Well that's a fair guess, but it's just a guess. We don't know, do we? A body that is immortal and incorruptible will be something different to how we understand 'bodies' to be. Remember that that spirits are corruptible.

    I'm discussing what the Christian tradition understands, not what we as individuals assume ... I can't imagine what 'whole body consciousness' is, or why we would need it ... to my mind it's not a quantitative thing, but a qualitative thing.

    As above ... the 'light' that Christianity speaks of is not the same order of light that the chakras speak of ...

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  4. salishan

    salishan freesoul

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0

    AndrewX
    exquisite creature

    Jesus the Galilean is a parablist
    & parables create expectations , then
    subtly (or not so subtly) work-against those expectations

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    1. in the ancient (polytheistic) world

    Temple gods are there to be served
    (thru songs of praise & edible sacrifices) &
    this includes the Jerusalem Temple of Jesus' day

    this quip by Jesus the Galilean about "the Son of Man"
    is a statement against the Jerusalem Temple
    (& against the Sadducees & rich families which support the Temple)

    (the gods are amoral
    though they will abide by contracts with humans
    humans recognized only as a block-of-people , as a tribe or a nation
    abide by the covenant just as long as the humans keep-up-their-end)

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    2. in the ancient (polytheistic) world

    Kings are meant to be served
    (they are often perceived as divine or semi-divine beings)

    so too the popular Jewish expectation
    about the arrival of the Son of Man

    a triumphant warrior-King
    who will expand Gyd's kingdom from not just the Heavens
    but extend Gyd's domain to encompass Earth , as well
    (like Persia overtaking Babylon , a half-millennium earlier)

    this Son of Man (this warrior-King) is a Lord to be served
    to rally behind & give martial aid to , in
    ridding the planet of the "impure" Roman status-quo

    & here
    Jesus the Galilean is implying
    that this folk-expectation is the wrong expectation
    that the change (the apocalypse) to come is far more profound

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    3. the end of the ancient (polytheistic) world is imminent

    (a whole new picture of reality is at-hand
    a reality devoid of Temple gods & of savior-Kings)

    the whole nature of Divinity
    is about to change
    is soon to be turned inside-out

    (or rather
    turned
    outside-in
    )

    to Jesus the Galilean
    the "command-structure" has ended
    (& now) everybody matters

    (instead) the Divine will serve
    (will aid in the furtherance of) individual-human
    person-to-person ( humane / moral ) pursuits

    Gyd points
    Gyd redirects natural-impulses

     
  5. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Poignant & relevant commentary, salishan!

    I like #3 especially. Perhaps it can be summed up in the phrase `Right Human Relations.'

    Some might think that this sounds Humanistic. It can be, but if this seems to imply a limitation - exclusive of Deity - I would argue that this need not be the case.

    Perhaps the Kingdom of Heaven can only manifest ... when we have taken one step closer to accepting the responsibility of being our Brother's keeper. Many already have, and do.

    If the Kingdom of Heaven is to come into existence on Earth, I will expect that to occur *through* Humanity, and *with Humanity's help* ... not despite humanity.

    Who better to demonstrate what the Kingdom of Heaven looks like *in expression* than Christ Jesus?

    And what better way than to choose a variety of individuals to express various Heavenly or spiritual qualities [Divine archetypes, Virtues & ideals]?

    I notice he didn't have to wait around until he died, however. And he sure isn't the one responsible for all the folks getting confused about the details of Resurrection and the life to come. There were already abundant problems with the theology extant before Christ's coming ... which obviously are every bit as clear [as mud] today. ;)
    "All your followers are blind/Too much heaven on their minds"
    "... and they'll hurt you when they THINK you've lied"
     
  6. salishan

    salishan freesoul

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0

    AndrewX
    exquisite creature

    the idea of the spiritual body
    is key to the thinking of Paul of Tarsus , in his Corinth-letters

    u are correct to query about it

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    to Paul of Tarsus
    Jesus the Galilean is essentially no different than any other human-being
    Jesus' corpse (at Easter) did not leave the tomb
    (the "empty tomb" is a folk-anecdote produced by later Gospel writers)

    Jesus is given (instead) a "new body" (one without "impurities")
    a body fit for heaven , & it is this body via which "Jesus ascends to heaven"

    & Paul of Tarsus anticipates all righteous souls , at the end of time
    to (likewise) leave their impure (perishable) corpse in the grave &
    be given a new ("incorruptible") body , when the Final Trumpet blasts

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    AndrewX , replace (in this text)
    the word "Adam" with the word "flesh", &
    the word "Christ" with the word "spirit"
    & u get the true gist of Paul of Tarsus' concept

    for in the flesh , each person will die
    so in the spirit , each person will live on


    flesh is our human inheritance (genetic instinct-driven behaviors)
    spirit is our portal linking us the divine (to Gyd-embracing conduct)

    because no human is more than 49% spirit (at least 51% flesh)
    this is why the Law of Moses is needed , as a brake upon instinctual behaviors
    (to make us righteous , despite ourselves)

    but then Jesus the Galilean comes along
    53% spirit , only 47% flesh
    (a tipping-point is reached , critical-mass achieved)
    & the Law of Moses becomes irrelevant for Jesus
    because he can walk-in-righteousness without the crutch of the Law
    (& so too , others who learn to walk in Jesus' footsteps)

    human behavior has a new software
    (a non-instinctual software) , &
    this software can be taught
    (because the ingredients are already inside us)
    taught , by the grace of the spirit

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Paul fumbles with the language to speak his idea
    but this is essentially what Paul of Tarsus means

    if u'r investment in spirit
    crests over this 50% mark
    in the blink of an eye , everything is changed

    the only thing "special" about Jesus
    (to Paul of Tarsus) is that
    Jesus the Galilean was first (first to crest , first to breach)

    Jesus pulls us (each) out of the impure kingdom of the flesh
    & shows us (each) the spiritual way (a new software of behavior)

    &
    this is our saving grace

     
  7. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Yep ... minor points of difference aside [truly minor!] ... and I quite agree.

    Sounds like the Perennial Wisdom, or Ageless Wisdom with which I am familiar.

    Seems like a famous poet somewhere once reminded us that no matter what you call a rose, it remains just as fragrant.

    So quickly-quipped, I wonder if people realize what this is emphasizing! ;)

    Cheers!
     

Share This Page