Hi radarmark —
The Church — which I would not classify as Catholic, Orthodox, Armenian or whatever — was founded at Pentecost. Tradition has it that from here the twelve went their various ways (James was killed before he even began).
The Ethiopian Church dates back to the Apostolic era (Acts 8:26-40). But the church in Ethiopia followed the Egyptian Church in its split with the mainline Church over the monophysite debate, one of the main points of contention between the Latin/Greek and what came to be known as the Coptic Church.
Thus I would say there was no distinct Ethiopian Church existed before the Council of Chalcedon (451AD), any more than there was a distinct Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox Church. There was only ... the Church.
As for Armenia, again it was founded in the Apostolic Era, but became separate from the communion in the early 4th century when King Thiridates III declared it a local and autonomous church under his kingship.
Same with Assyria — The local synod of Seleucia-Ctesiphon (410AD), held at the Sassanid capital saw the local bishops elect a formal 'Catholicos', or leader. The first, Mar Isaac, was required both to lead the Christian community, and to answer on its behalf to the Sassanid Emperor. Here we see true universality of the church coming under local pressure and succumbing to national interests.
The Greek Orthodox Church itself suffered this nationalising tendency, just witness the rise of Constantinople, 'climbing over' the older and more senior patriarchies of Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria, to declare itself 'the New Rome' and seek to usurp the authority of the Petrine Office. Nor can the interfering of the Eastern Emperors be dismissed, whereas the West was much more robust (and better situated) to see off local national interference.
One of my patrons, St Maximus the Confessor, born in Constantinople, was a defender of Chalcedon and fought against the Coptic Schism (one of the more obscure schisms in the church, and a clear indicator of Rome's independence of political interference) was kidnapped by the Constantinople party, along with Pope Martin I, tried, tortured and died from his treatment and yet is regarded as more an Eastern saint then a Western one, even though he defended the West and was vociferously critical of the East (hence his epithet of 'confessor' — he confessed the true faith, which included Peter as head of the church on earth).
St Maximus also argued that the filioque clause, inserted into the creed by local bishops to clarify a point of understanding in their contending with surviving elements of Arianism, was entirely orthodox because they supported the claim from Greek texts and Greek saints, and argued as the Greek Church argued.
But this was the seventh century, and already tensions were making themselves felt East and West ... it would take a few more centuries for either side to end up hurling condemnations and excommunications at each other ... and really only then, around the turn of the first millenium, do we see Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox as distinct and opposed communities.
God bless,
Thomas
I know we've discussed this before, but why do you think that?
The Church — which I would not classify as Catholic, Orthodox, Armenian or whatever — was founded at Pentecost. Tradition has it that from here the twelve went their various ways (James was killed before he even began).
The Ethiopian Church dates back to the Apostolic era (Acts 8:26-40). But the church in Ethiopia followed the Egyptian Church in its split with the mainline Church over the monophysite debate, one of the main points of contention between the Latin/Greek and what came to be known as the Coptic Church.
Thus I would say there was no distinct Ethiopian Church existed before the Council of Chalcedon (451AD), any more than there was a distinct Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox Church. There was only ... the Church.
As for Armenia, again it was founded in the Apostolic Era, but became separate from the communion in the early 4th century when King Thiridates III declared it a local and autonomous church under his kingship.
Same with Assyria — The local synod of Seleucia-Ctesiphon (410AD), held at the Sassanid capital saw the local bishops elect a formal 'Catholicos', or leader. The first, Mar Isaac, was required both to lead the Christian community, and to answer on its behalf to the Sassanid Emperor. Here we see true universality of the church coming under local pressure and succumbing to national interests.
The Greek Orthodox Church itself suffered this nationalising tendency, just witness the rise of Constantinople, 'climbing over' the older and more senior patriarchies of Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria, to declare itself 'the New Rome' and seek to usurp the authority of the Petrine Office. Nor can the interfering of the Eastern Emperors be dismissed, whereas the West was much more robust (and better situated) to see off local national interference.
One of my patrons, St Maximus the Confessor, born in Constantinople, was a defender of Chalcedon and fought against the Coptic Schism (one of the more obscure schisms in the church, and a clear indicator of Rome's independence of political interference) was kidnapped by the Constantinople party, along with Pope Martin I, tried, tortured and died from his treatment and yet is regarded as more an Eastern saint then a Western one, even though he defended the West and was vociferously critical of the East (hence his epithet of 'confessor' — he confessed the true faith, which included Peter as head of the church on earth).
St Maximus also argued that the filioque clause, inserted into the creed by local bishops to clarify a point of understanding in their contending with surviving elements of Arianism, was entirely orthodox because they supported the claim from Greek texts and Greek saints, and argued as the Greek Church argued.
But this was the seventh century, and already tensions were making themselves felt East and West ... it would take a few more centuries for either side to end up hurling condemnations and excommunications at each other ... and really only then, around the turn of the first millenium, do we see Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox as distinct and opposed communities.
God bless,
Thomas
