parabrahman

Discussion in 'Hare Krishna' started by carrots, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    bhagavad gita as it is 7 24

    avyaktaḿ vyaktim āpannaḿ
    manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
    paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto
    mamāvyayam anuttamam

    SYNONYMS
    avyaktam — nonmanifested; vyaktim — personality; āpannam — achieved; manyante — think; māmMe; abuddhayaḥ — less intelligent persons; param — supreme; bhāvam — existence; ajānantaḥ — without knowing; mama — My; avyayam — imperishable; anuttamam — the finest.

    TRANSLATION
    Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.
    PURPORT
    Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord Kṛṣṇa in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. Yāmunācārya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession of Rāmānujācārya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection. He says,
    tvāḿ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ
    sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ
    prakhyāta-daiva-paramārtha-vidāḿ mataiś ca
    naivāsura-prakṛtayaḥ prabhavanti boddhum
    "My dear Lord, devotees like Vyāsadeva and Nārada know You to be the Personality of Godhead. By understanding different Vedic literatures, one can come to know Your characteristics, Your form and Your activities, and one can thus understand that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing Vedānta and the Upaniṣads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead." (Stotra-ratna 12)
    In the Brahma-saḿhitā it is stated that the Personality of Godhead cannot be understood simply by study of the Vedānta literature. Only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord can the Personality of the Supreme be known. Therefore in this verse it is clearly stated that not only are the worshipers of the demigods less intelligent, but those nondevotees who are engaged in Vedānta and speculation on Vedic literature without any tinge of true Kṛṣṇa consciousness are also less intelligent, and for them it is not possible to understand God's personal nature. Persons who are under the impression that the Absolute Truth is impersonal are described as abuddhayaḥ, which means those who do not know the ultimate feature of the Absolute Truth. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that supreme realization begins from the impersonal Brahman and then rises to the localized Supersoul — but the ultimate word in the Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead. Modern impersonalists are still less intelligent, for they do not even follow their great predecessor Śańkarācārya, who has specifically stated that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Impersonalists, therefore, not knowing the Supreme Truth, think Kṛṣṇa to be only the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, or a prince, or a powerful living entity. This is also condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā (9.11). Avajānanti māḿ mūḍhā mānuṣīḿ tanum āśritam: "Only the fools regard Me as an ordinary person."
    The fact is that no one can understand Kṛṣṇa without rendering devotional service and without developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Bhāgavatam (10.14.29) confirms this:
    athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-
    prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
    jānāti tattvaḿ bhagavan-mahimno
    na cānya eko 'pi ciraḿ vicinvan
    "My Lord, if one is favored by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality. But those who speculate to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years." One cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, or His form, quality or name simply by mental speculation or by discussing Vedic literature. One must understand Him by devotional service. When one is fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, beginning by chanting the mahā-mantraHare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare — then only can one understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nondevotee impersonalists think that Kṛṣṇa has a body made of this material nature and that all His activities, His form and everything are māyā. These impersonalists are known as Māyāvādīs. They do not know the ultimate truth.
    The twentieth verse clearly states, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ. "Those who are blinded by lusty desires surrender unto the different demigods." It is accepted that besides the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are demigods who have their different planets, and the Lord also has a planet. As stated in the twenty-third verse, devān deva-yajo yānti mad-bhaktā yānti mām api: the worshipers of the demigods go to the different planets of the demigods, and those who are devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa go to the Kṛṣṇaloka planet. Although this is clearly stated, the foolish impersonalists still maintain that the Lord is formless and that these forms are impositions. From the study of the Gītā does it appear that the demigods and their abodes are impersonal? Clearly, neither the demigods nor Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are impersonal. They are all persons; Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He has His own planet, and the demigods have theirs.
    Therefore the monistic contention that ultimate truth is formless and that form is imposed does not hold true. It is clearly stated here that it is not imposed. From the Bhagavad-gītā we can clearly understand that the forms of the demigods and the form of the Supreme Lord are simultaneously existing and that Lord Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda, eternal blissful knowledge. The Vedas also confirm that the Supreme Absolute Truth is ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt, or by nature full of blissful pleasure, and that He is the reservoir of unlimited auspicious qualities. And in the Gītā the Lord says that although He is aja (unborn), He still appears. These are the facts that we should understand from the Bhagavad-gītā. We cannot understand how the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be impersonal; the imposition theory of the impersonalist monist is false as far as the statements of the Gītā are concerned. It is clear herein that the Supreme Absolute Truth, Lord Kṛṣṇa, has both form and personality.
     
  2. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Even with the links, this thread is not (to me at least) understandable!
     
  3. Senthil

    Senthil Active Member

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    It's just quoting from the "Bhagavat Gita as it is". It would be more interesting to have an opinion.
     
  4. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    ok here's my opinion god is both personal and impersonal both brahman and parabrahman he is simultaneously one with his energy and separate from it, like the sun, immediately there is sun the sunlight is also there, the jiva atma souls are like the atomic particles of light in the rays of the sun to become one with brahman would be like that. but the sun is separate from the sunlight at the same time, the sun here being compared to parabrahman. The jiva can have a relationship with the supreme lord sri Krishna if he so chooses and the start of that relationship is acceptance of a bonafide representative of the lord. |I believe that swami a.c. bhaktivedanta is such a person as stated in bhagavad gita 4.34 which is why I have posted his words.:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    :D An atheist hindu's reading of BhagawadGita 7.24

    "avyaktaḿ vyaktim āpannaḿ, manyante mām abuddhayaḥ;
    paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto, mam avyayam anuttamam."


    Ignorant men think that I am the manifestation of the imperishable,
    They do not know my finest identity, which is 'the imperishable', because of ignorance.

    Additionally: They also do not know that all things in the universe are that imperishable, the living and the non-living, 'physical energy'.

    Therefore, understand the higher meaning. BhagawadGita is a beautiful book, for theists as well as atheists. You can come to me for explanations, I am one of the enlightened person, who are pointed out by Lord Krishna in BhagawadGita 4.34.
     
  6. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    is there an online copy of the gita you quote from?

    You are tattva darsini? :eek:
     
  7. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    Brahmano hi Pratistha Aham
    I am the basis of the Brahman. 14.27

    vadanti tat tattva-vidas
    tattvam yaj jnänam advayam
    brahmeti paramätmeti
    bhagavän iti sabdyate

    Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramätmä or Bhagavän. bhagavat purana 1.2.11
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    No, I do not need to. I am, as you said, a 'tattva-darshin'. I translate on my own. I know what Lord Krishna meant. I too, am, no other than Brahman. So too, are you - 'Tat twam asi' - 'that is what you are', when you realize.
     
  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    'tattvam yaj jnänam advayam' - know 'that' as non-dual, you said it. Call it whatever, Brahman, Paramatma, or Bhagawan.
     
  10. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    I begin to understand, you (carrots) want to define the Gita in terms of what you know (or beleive you know) about the bible. Does not really work. Regardless of the text, it is always open to interpretation. The text (as written) is never inerrant (I know this is probably a foreign notion to you).
     
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    It is not interpretation. That is what her translation also says in Bhagawat Purana from Hare-Krishna Vedabase.
     
  12. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    If indeed you are a brahman realised soul I salute you but if you were you would know that the absolute is realised in three stages first brahman realisation then paramatma realisation then bhagavan realisation.
    It is great that you are situated on the transcendental platform and have realised your oneness with all of creation but as a wellwisher I suggest you try to move forward from your enlightenment to the abode of prema where you can have a loving relationship with the soul of your soul!

    Hare Krishna:)
     
  13. carrots

    carrots New Member

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    Gita is open to interpretation but unless you are a Sanskrit scholar you must place faith in someone else's ability to translate, there are many translations but as srila prabhupada has said in his introduction to bhagavad gita as it is there are so many editions where the authors own viewpoint is expressed throughout instead of krishnas viewpoint. Srila prabhupada is a pure devotee of lord Krishna and has expressed krsnas viewpoint throughout the bhagavad gita hence giving it the title AS IT IS. krsna has told throughout the gita that he is a person and has his own abode. Proud scholars have not been able to touch the real current going through gita because they are non devotees.
     
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Oh yes, the 'Vyavaharika Satya' (Pragmatic reality of Sankara). That too is correct, and there is an 'Ishwara'. Lord Krishna? Ghanashyama, dark like rain-ladden clouds, yellow uttariya like lightening in the clouds, peacock feather in his head-gear, the hypnotizing tunes of his flute, the butter thief, who carried away the clothes of the gopi's while they were bathing, lotus eyed, lips like raspberries, of broad chest and solid thighs. Who else? No? Naughty boy. Even his name is Krishna, the one who pulls. Hare-Krishna. :)

    Madhurastakam - The beauty of Lord Sri Krishna - Vallabha acharya
     

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