Humans and universe

guen

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Lets think about a gardener who intents to eat apples. Because of his ability as a gardener, he would create an apple garden to have apples. But what kind of apple he has in his mind? When we say ''apple'', the image that comes to our minds is always the same: a fruit that has the color of a shiny red, perfectly round and juicy... this is the idealized image of an apple in our minds. Lets call that apple, ''the red apple''. when the gardener creating the apple garden, the apple he intents to have is ''the red apple''
In the above example, the gardener symbols ALLAH(GOD), apple garden symbols ''the universe'', everything in the garden except apples are ''everything in universe except humans.'' Apples symbols ''humans'' and the red apple(idealized apple the gardener intents to have) symbols Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.). So the universe is(just like an apple garden) a human garden; and is created for humans. in truth it was created because of Prophet Muhammad because he is the idealized human.
Being that the universe is created for humans seems to be against the fact that the planet earth is very little comparing to vast universe, in the first look. But in truth; among the kind of objects constituting the apple garden, the one which has the least number is ''apples''. there are more grass, insects or other things than apples, ,in an apple garden. But no one calls there ''an insect garden'' or a ''grass garden''... This has 2 causes: 1- The most precious kind of object in the garden is ''apple'' 2- Garden was created for ''apples''. In the same way, universe was created for humans( in specific: for prophet muhammad) contrary to the minute amount of space humans(or planet earth) occupy in the vast universe...
 

guen

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Putting the earth back at the center of the universe? Seems like a two thousand year step backwards!

i did not said that. i said that humans are the most precious things in universe

Also i have to say: this analogy that i used was just a thought and interpretation of mine. it may be not perfect or suitable. it does not come from any religious scripture or religious figure of islam. so do not pay it so much importance when evaluating anything about islam.

A more clearer explanation i think is this:

Purpose of creation is that Allah wants to witness himself, his beauty and his perfection from his creations' percepective and and wants them to be in servitude to him. Everything has ever created was actually just an extension of Allah's names. Among these creations, humans are the highest and most precious, because humans bears all names of Allah, unlike other creations. These names are limited in us, but in Allah the names are infinite. In every person, some of these names might be dominant over other names. For example; in women the name ''Rahim''(merciful) might be more dominant, than it is in men. Prophet Muhammad is the ideal person because in him, all the names are balanced in a way that is done by Allah. And, every virtue and good characteristic that should exist in a man, is on the perfect level on Prophet Muhammad. But that does not mean that other people are unnecessary. Allah's love and mercy is infinite and is enough for everything. Also, like i wrote earlier, different persons might be in the dominance of different names of Allah, thus every person is unique and is important for Allah.

Also i have to say: propethood actually is not a mission, it is a place of honor given by Allah. Prophet Muhammad said: ''I was a prophet, when Adam was just a mixture of clay'' So, among the prophets, Muhammad(pbuh) was the first created and sent last.
 

Jayhawker Soule

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In the above example, the gardener symbols ALLAH(GOD), apple garden symbols ''the universe'', everything in the garden except apples are ''everything in universe except humans.'' Apples symbols ''humans'' and the red apple(idealized apple the gardener intents to have) symbols Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.).
So it took your God over four thousand years to produce a single decent apple. Not too impressive. :(
 

donnann

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So it took your God over four thousand years to produce a single decent apple. Not too impressive. :(
I believe that the whole universe was the garden of eden and that earth is the center of the garden. I believe there is many many planets out there with life on it. I also believe that the creation story of adam and eve was the story of the creation of a whole human community and not just two people. I believe the creation of the universe was a beautiful thing ....a dance of light and formation. I believe the big bang was the big fall when the universal soul and spirit separated from the elements and the universal inhabitants became mortal.
 

guen

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Earllier i said that humans and other things carry the extensions of names of Allah. İ want to open up this a little. A human can carry the extension of a name(title) of Allah by:
1- contrast: for example humans have various and endless neeeds. So they carry the extension of Allah's names of Kadir(The Able, the Capable, the Omnipotent.) or Ghanee(The rich, the all sufficing, Self-Sufficient)
2-sense of ''self'': for example a doctor who heals people carry the extension and manifestation of Shafii(the one who gives cure)
3- with the properties came to us: for example when we are given food we carry the extension of name Al-Mughnee(The One who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.) or when we die we carry the extension of name Al-Mumeet(The One who renders the living dead.)

Also i want to define shortly what shirk is. Shirk is not accepting that Allah is one and only one worthy of worship. Allah says in Quran, that he will not forgive shirk. For example, claiming that Jesus is god or son of god, is shirk...
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
I like your analogy...I like where you were going with it. I can't understand a creator...one with the ability and power to create the universe would have any need or desire to require any of his creations worship or serve him...when he has everything that is.

Now a slave owner...one without the power or ability to manifest a cotton field much less than a universe...I can see him using his wealth to purchase slaves and use a whip and rod to discipline and food and good treatment to reward... But Allah? Why would one who has access to all display such a vile human trait?
 

donnann

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I like your analogy...I like where you were going with it. I can't understand a creator...one with the ability and power to create the universe would have any need or desire to require any of his creations worship or serve him...when he has everything that is.

Now a slave owner...one without the power or ability to manifest a cotton field much less than a universe...I can see him using his wealth to purchase slaves and use a whip and rod to discipline and food and good treatment to reward... But Allah? Why would one who has access to all display such a vile human trait?
When it says worship I think it means to love. It doesn't mean to fall on your knees and be subservient to GOD but to love him because he is the father of everyone and everything. Its not to serve him but to be the best we can be. Hooah
 

guen

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I like your analogy...I like where you were going with it. I can't understand a creator...one with the ability and power to create the universe would have any need or desire to require any of his creations worship or serve him...when he has everything that is.

Now a slave owner...one without the power or ability to manifest a cotton field much less than a universe...I can see him using his wealth to purchase slaves and use a whip and rod to discipline and food and good treatment to reward... But Allah? Why would one who has access to all display such a vile human trait?

I should say that my english is not superb and i may not know some proper terms. The real term that should be used instead of worhsip is ''Abdiyyet''. Difference from worship and abdiyyet is this: In worship, you say: i exist and you exist. but i submit myself to you because i have no way to defeat you.In abdiyyet you say, you exist so greatly my existence does not even matter. so i submit myself to you, because you are the one who created me and the one who preferred my existence to my absence. i love you and love the things you love...
Great mystic poet Yunus Emre said:
we love the created
because of the creator

To emphasize that abdiyyet( being an abd of Allah) is a very great honor, i can say this: Prophethood is actually a place of honor given by Allah. Much of the prophets have honorary titles, For example, Moses is Kelimullah(the one who god has spoken with), Jesus is Ruhullah( spirit of god), Abraham is Halilullah(friend of Allah). Muhammad(pbuh) is the highest of prophets, and his place of honor is Abdiyyet. You can see the honor given to being an abd. İt is not decreasing at all.
 

Nothingtoknow

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Lets think about a gardener who intents to eat apples. Because of his ability as a gardener, he would create an apple garden to have apples. But what kind of apple he has in his mind? When we say ''apple'', the image that comes to our minds is always the same: a fruit that has the color of a shiny red, perfectly round and juicy... this is the idealized image of an apple in our minds. Lets call that apple, ''the red apple''. when the gardener creating the apple garden, the apple he intents to have is ''the red apple''
In the above example, the gardener symbols ALLAH(GOD), apple garden symbols ''the universe'', everything in the garden except apples are ''everything in universe except humans.'' Apples symbols ''humans'' and the red apple(idealized apple the gardener intents to have) symbols Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.). So the universe is(just like an apple garden) a human garden; and is created for humans. in truth it was created because of Prophet Muhammad because he is the idealized human.
Being that the universe is created for humans seems to be against the fact that the planet earth is very little comparing to vast universe, in the first look. But in truth; among the kind of objects constituting the apple garden, the one which has the least number is ''apples''. there are more grass, insects or other things than apples, ,in an apple garden. But no one calls there ''an insect garden'' or a ''grass garden''... This has 2 causes: 1- The most precious kind of object in the garden is ''apple'' 2- Garden was created for ''apples''. In the same way, universe was created for humans( in specific: for prophet muhammad) contrary to the minute amount of space humans(or planet earth) occupy in the vast universe...

Interesting analogy, but i have a problem accepting few of your assumptions.

You seem to be looking at the world purely from a human angle. I can understand this is natural because we cannot read the mind of an insect! ( the insect may feel it is the most precious and universe is created for it)

Universe is created for humans is something I am not comfortable, I am also not comfortable with the assumption that humans are the most precious. How did you come to that conclusion?

It is interesting to see how belief systems develop and determine our assumptions.
 

donnann

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Interesting analogy, but i have a problem accepting few of your assumptions.

You seem to be looking at the world purely from a human angle. I can understand this is natural because we cannot read the mind of an insect! ( the insect may feel it is the most precious and universe is created for it)

Universe is created for humans is something I am not comfortable, I am also not comfortable with the assumption that humans are the most precious. How did you come to that conclusion?

It is interesting to see how belief systems develop and determine our assumptions.
I believe the universe was created in the image and likeness of the heavenly universe that exists beyond this one. I believe there are life on other planets as well. If you take two of the highest beings that exist on a planet and extended from them is the animals, the environment ect to support that life. I don't think we should be eating animals though because I believe their existence was not as food. In the garden of eden god said I give you every green plant and tree with seed in it that will be for food. There is no mention of meat eating until after the fall na I belive that is symbolic in nature. This universe was created in the reverse order of the heavenly universe ending with the center of it which is earth. So as you can see the whole universe is the garden of eden and our planet the center of the garden.
 
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