Why I will not call ISIS Muslim

Discussion in 'Islam' started by BigJoeNobody, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    ISIS images appear to show Jordanian pilot burned alive - CNN.com

    With this act, an act that would be Haram to do to a rat, it should be clear that these Assholes (excuse my language please as this is incredibly disturbing) are NOT MUSLIM. The closest thing most of them come to Islam is geography. I hope this act solidifies the real Muslims against ISIS. This act should not be forgotten. ALL of the people involved should be tried and punished the maximum penalty. To burn a cockroach is Haram, To burn a non-believer is Haram, To burn an innocent non-believer is Haram and is no different than murder, to burn a man who shares the faith you claim while he is praying to the God you claim to follow without even a trial to determine his guilt... This is beyond Haram... this is Lunacy, this is the work of Shaytan, and those who follow him.

    May Allah have mercy on the poor man who was burned, and may Allah place his grace and blessings upon the man. And may Allah give strength and determination to those who have the power to bring this evil to a hault. And may he uncover the sheet which ISIS and it's actions have placed over Islam to the non-believers and people of the book. Ameen.

    I have no sympathy for ISIS, the men who committed this act, nor their supporters. Not that it means much but I give my grattitude to anyone who works to bring these people to justice.
     
  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    And I will forever leave them with their name the started with which matches that of an egyptian pagan god.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    They started with that name? They named themselves in English instead of Arabic or Persian? Interesting.
     
  4. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    The first I heard it was on a Turkish news site, they were called ISIS then (Turkish language site) when they got aroung to attacking Christians and the US media got it, they were still ISIS, then later ISIL, now DAESH (means same as ISIL in arabic from what I understand.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I think their acronym is of a US dissent....as the second one, in order to remove the word 'state' from it and not imply any legitimacy....

    I believe it is the Kurds that will obtain a new state out of all of this meddling we are doing over there.
     
  6. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    If it will stop the PKK fighting, and give Kurds a legitamate claim to land they have been in for over 2 centuries, I am all for it. I hope while they are at it, they can take Bashar out and give the rest of Syria back to Syrians. But even that would have to be another war where innocent people hve to suffer and die. So maybe they can just get some land to call Kurdistan, and everyone can live in peace, somehow peacefully voting Assad out.
     
  7. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    as for the name, IDK. there are a lot of british and US citizens in the ISIS ranks. either way, they're evil, non-islamic, disgusting people.
     
  8. Ahmad232

    Ahmad232 Well-Known Member

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    salaam BigJoe

    Isis are not 'muslim' in the sense that they don't properly submit to Allah but takfir is something to beware of bro so they are muslim in terms of being believers rather than kaafir
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    So whose will are they obeying? They aren't submitting to Allah, they are submitting to someone's will who says they are submitting to Allah. While I understand your point, and respect your POV, I cannot give these people an inkling of a thought as being believers... No believer could do the things they have done, nor said the things they have said. At best I would call them hypocrites (please excuse my english terms as my arabic is horrid)

    And salaam.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Is the killing of innocents Quranic? Is the killing of other Muslims like they have? How could it be takfir if what they are doing is not haraam?

    Many English and Americans in ISIS? What percentage do you think are western mercenaries and how does that bode with the ideals of ISIS?
     
  11. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I didn't mean mercenaries... I mean US and UK born people who went to join these organizations. As I understand there was at first a large call to come to fight Assad for his atrocities.

    Ahmed, again I hope you can excuse me for what you percieve is takfir. IMO not calling them Muslim and saying they are not "believers" are different. If it were the same then calling Christians and Jews as unbelievers would also be ok. Whereas Quranically they are removed from unbelievers as "people of the book". I am certainly in no position to declare my view as correct or incorrect. But, I still stand that I cannot see how one would be a believer and commit such atrocious acts.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    When it comes to religious responsibilities...and knowledge...I say there are things we know...and things we Know...

    Some things we know of, we know the rule, we know the consequences and the benefits...

    Then there are things we Know, we Know the rule, we Know the consequences and the benefits... therefor we do them...we can tell whether it is a small letter know or Capital Know depending on whether we follow the rule without thinking, it is ingrained as the only way to do things.
     
  13. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Westerners who have joined this group had already self identified themselves as Muslim extremists. That they were raised here or there makes no difference in what they are. The groups atrocities are so extreme that no sane person could believe they follow any genuine theology. They are human cancer. That anyone would go join them is beyond my comprehension.

    There are times I am truly disgusted with our species.
     
  14. Ahmad232

    Ahmad232 Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you say bro and I feel the same towards them ... they are giving Islam a very bad name

    but I have to inform you of a hadith that says if a muslim call other muslims non-believers, then one of them is a non-believer

    basically what this hadith means is that, if someone gets a takfir wrong then it rebounds on to them and they become the kaafir so this is why takfir should be left to the scholars

    and none of what they do takes them out of the folds of Islam bro; murder, torture, etc ,etc, are all major sins but they do not constitute shirk

    salaam
     
  15. Ahmad232

    Ahmad232 Well-Known Member

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    they misinterpret the Quran so while they think it is all Quranic, none of their extremism is
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    So it isn't unpardonable...if something isn't shirk.

    So what is the punishment fitting of the crime?
     
  17. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    allah is love. from love comes compassion, forgiveness, caring, ect if you do not submit to this your an infindel
     
  18. Ahmad232

    Ahmad232 Well-Known Member

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    wil, i'm afraid there is no punishment for them as they are the reaction to the us/uk invasion of Iraq

    you reap what you sow basically and the harvest has to come to a completion!
     

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