Mark of the Beast...

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Namaste Jesus, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    Revelation 13:16. KJV

    "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads"

    Some say the above passage is literal, referring to a visible mark or adornment placed on the body by Satan.

    Others say the above passage is figurative, referring to a mindset or belief of those who have been deceived by Satan.

    What say ye?
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I personally don't think there is any revelation in revelation.... nor anything literal... it is like a dream sequence to keep the fear alive and the flock in tow... sort of like the rabble rousing of 'Axis of Terror'...
     
  3. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

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    Gobbledygook!!!
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I spoke to soon... It isn't a book that has ever appealed to me. My earlier reference refers to how I've seen it used, not from any personal evaluation... my apologies... I think it worthy for me to spend some time with it and see what it holds for me.
     
  5. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    Are you addressing the topic of the thread or the comment of a fellow forum member?
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I took it as addressing the topic...not me...but either way it did initiate my response...
     
  7. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

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    Sorry for the confusion. I was giving my abbreviated summation of the book of Revelation.
     
  8. wanderer

    wanderer New Member

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    I think it means that their destiny was altered ... you know.. something along the lines of palmistry.
    I could be wrong though..
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    A reflection of a dream of John (which one, noone knows) as told by someone who heard it from someone else... Not saying anyone shouldn't believe it, but be aware this isn't a "revelation" or a single source reference, and there are always going to be issues with transferring knowledge when one did not witness an event themself. The 666 theory and 616 theory both come from this and scared the stuffing out of people to this day. Although most people don't know about 616 from what I've met.

    Another Question: From a Christian perspective, do you see Paul and John as Prophets? According to the Bible they received revelation from Jesus who most Christians believe is God.
     
  10. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    Now there's a fresh take. I hadn't thought of it quite that way before, but I like it!
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    Dear Nam,
    The beast with "two horns like a lamb", who was to deceive "all those who dwell on the earth", is the same little horn of Daniel 7:24-25, who was to "subdue three kings" (Daia, Severus, and Licinius), and his name is Constantine, who established the Roman church at his convened Council of Nicaea, in the year 325 AD. He, as stated by Daniel 7:25, "intend to make alterations in times and in law". His decree of 321 AD was to establish the "day of the sun" (Sunday) as the day of rest, and no one could buy or sell or do public business on that day. This decree, in the form of today's blue laws, exist to this day. Per Deuteronomy 6:8, a sign on one's hand and forehead is to keep either God's 10 commandments, or in the case of Constantine and his followers, to keep the commandments of Rome. The two horns like a lamb would represent leaders who are Christ like, but are in fact the two shepherds of Zechariah 11, who were to "pasture", the "flock doomed to slaughter", which would refer to the Roman church and her daughters, the Protestant Churches. These shepherds are the shepherds referred to as "Favor", and "Bound". "Favor" being the self professed apostle Paul and his gospel of Grace, and Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who would not feed, care or tend the sheep. A 3rd Shepherd was also mentioned in Zechariah 11:13, and this was Judas Iscariot. All three shepherd were to meet their death in the same generation (Ze 11:8).
     
  12. Amica

    Amica Member

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    I think it is referring to the economic "mark" if you will. Many believe it is about microchips or tattoos. I think it has to do with a cashless society. The Western world has the most economic power and has placed economic sanctions on nations who do not do its bidding. With increased concerns of terrorism, the cashless economic system appears to make sense and I believe that is where we are going. Already, buying airplane tickets with cash is problematic in some places and is looked upon as suspicious. The governments want to be able to know where the money is going and who is buying what. In order to do that, there must be no cash. So, once we are all assigned credit cards as the only way to sell or buy, you will start to have the "beast" mark. In what way does such cause one to be condemned to hell fire I am not sure because many will be forced to have the "mark." The only way I can think of how believers might get in trouble with God regarding the mark is the interest. Credit cards are part of Western economic system that functions on taking a large interest from its people and believers are not to take part in interest to earn a living. In fact, God threatens people with Hell if they take usury.
    I think that the beast is Western world and the mark is its economic power imposed to the rest of the world. :) Perhaps the Antichrist will be a banker ;)
     
  13. Ahmad232

    Ahmad232 Member

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    wow that's interesting; we have something similar in Islam; goes to show how these religions are from the same source [or rather Christianity and Judaism were]; from hadith we know near the end of time a beast will come out of the earth; it is called a best not because it is horrible and like the devil [lol] but because simply it is just a beast; a weird looking animal that talks like a human; it will traverse the world with great speed marking the foreheads of the muslims with the stick of Moses [pbuh] which will make their faces illuminated and marking the disbelievers' faces with the ring of prophet sulayman [as] which will darken their faces; it will talk to the people too and once it's task of marking all faces will be done, it will disappear
     
  14. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Can you point me to where I might find this Hadith, I was unaware of such. furthermore, Is it considered a strong or weak Hadith.
     
  15. Amica

    Amica Member

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    BigJoeNobod, the Noble Qur'an actually mentions the beast Ahmad is talking about in chapter 27, verse 82:

    And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs.

    This beast, according to the Qur'an, will be very scary and no one will escape it. Muslim written traditions outside the Qur'an, however, give more details as to its descriptions. Many scholars have attempted to identify who or what the beast is, and whether it has appeared in our times. Many believe that the beast will be friendly toward believers because it is sealing them as believers. Yet, who knows. It could just be that there will come a time when people will have to publicly identify as believers in God or not and such declaration will be their identity.
     
  16. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Well, since Revelation 13:16. KJV is referenced in the OP we can conclude that the beast is Satan himself. According to the same scripture referenced, Satan will come posing as Christ returned and leave his mark upon the foreheads of those he manages to deceive. The question posed in the OP is whether or not this is a physical mark or some sort of metaphor.

    In this case I believe the phrase 'mark on the forehead' refers to the mind. In other words, many will have it in their head that Satan is Christ. So many will be deceived that all those who do not fall for it will be shunned.
     
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  17. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Thank you for bringing the verse to my attention, but I was rather interested in the following part.
    I personally have never heard such. The Aya seems to point more toward a beast that is created (or brought forth) as a last chance sign for those who have heard the word but are skeptical. As the following Ayas:
    This may be from my lack of Arabic knowledge, but the words "And" and "Until" usually portray a continuing idea or point. Or maybe I'm just too tired to contemplate the Aya in their sophistication.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    Dear Amica,
    One should look to the "Scripture", to find out what a mark on the hand and forehead is. That would be Deuteronomy 6:8, whereas it concerns teaching and keeping the 10 Commandments. The "beast" with the mark is the same horn of Daniel 7:24-25, who was to "intend to make alterations in times and in Law", and who was to "subdue three kings". The 3 kings Constantine subdued were Daia, Severus and Licinius.

    Those that were to be deceived, have already been deceived by this 7th head of the beast (Rev 17:20), and by abiding his commandments, which are his changing the time of the "day of rest", to the day of his pagan god, "the day of the sun", and keeping the pagan tradition of the trinity, his Roman church is leading the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), down the path to destruction. We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast, which is to be during the "end of the age".
     
  19. Amica

    Amica Member

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    BigJoeNobody, hi. The best interpretation of the Qur'anic verses and hadiths referring to the Dabbatul-Ardh (the earth beast) comes from sheik Imran Hossein. He says that whenever the context of words 'dabbatul-ardh' or 'ardh' are used in the Qur'an, it is used in the context of the Holy Land, or the land of the House of Israel. This is his explanation:



    2nd Pillar, you are right. The biblical reference of the mark is more detailed than the one in the Qur'an in that it talks about who will impose the mark of himself. The biblical earth beast and the Qur'anic earth beast are one and the same, except that the Qur'an does not mention it too much. It only says that:

    a. it will be very scary, everyone will fear it and will not be able to escape it
    b. it will mark people according to their belief or unbelief in God
    c. it will be a sign of the End of Times (Qiyamah)

    Many Muslims have thought or were taught to believe that the earth beast is friendly, good to believers. However, Qur'an does not say that specifically. It just says that believers will be marked as believers. Hadiths give further clues about the earth beast coming from the Holy Land:

    1. The staff of Moses and ring of Solomon

    Well, who were Moses and Solomon? According to Muslim sources they were great Messengers of God SWT to the House of Israel. What did Moses' staff do? Helped him perform miracles as authorized by God SWT. What did the ring of Solomon do? Helped him control unseen forces. So this earth beast will be expected to perform great miracles in many ways. With the current technology advancements, it will not be impossible.

    The earth beast is not an animal that is so giant that covers the Earth, talks and reaches every human in the world. No. Qur'an tends to point to a more logical explanation of things, including the earth beast.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  20. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    Dang, and here I thought you were just another pretty face. :D Spot on AT!
     

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