Where do we find common ground?

[juantoo3]

Controversy will be there all the same. Controversy exists even between married ones.

Controversy is what you make of it. If you want to find it, it is easy to find. The question is, what do *you* do with it when you find it?

 

[juantoo3]

That's not "common ground" but tolerance of each others differences. You guys don't seem to get to the point.

Umm, frankly...neither do you.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I think (personally) a lot of this falls in the question of Focus. The example of common morality is quite unanimously accepted on topics such as murder, raped, etc. If you widen the focus from what, and into the Why, the common ground with some will fall apart, but it is nonetheless still a discussable topic, and some learning will take place. Going into details of how, when, who will probably disintegrate more of the "commonality", and much can be learned from such discussions, but the common ground remains in the what. (such as murder is Immoral)

 

[juantoo3]

I think (personally) a lot of this falls in the question of Focus. The example of common morality is quite unanimously accepted on topics such as murder, raped, etc. If you widen the focus from what, and into the Why, the common ground with some will fall apart, but it is nonetheless still a discussable topic, and some learning will take place. Going into details of how, when, who will probably disintegrate more of the "commonality", and much can be learned from such discussions, but the common ground remains in the what. (such as murder is Immoral)

Absolutely. No argument from me.

From what I learned about the various moral codes across many religions (strange I don't think anyone ever quite got around to including that from Islam, I guess it was assumed to be same or similar to the Ten Commandments), there are great similarities in the "big no-no's," and then as you say the "little no-no's" start getting noticably different, and then of course the details of each praxis often is so widely different as to be unrecognizable sometimes.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

Absolutely. No argument from me.

From what I learned about the various moral codes across many religions (strange I don't think anyone ever quite got around to including that from Islam, I guess it was assumed to be same or similar to the Ten Commandments), there are great similarities in the "big no-no's," and then as you say the "little no-no's" start getting noticably different, and then of course the details of each praxis often is so widely different as to be unrecognizable sometimes.

If you tell me what the "that" that is highlighted is referring to I would be happy to try to point you to where it is found. (If you are talking about the Moses' Stone Tablet Commandments, They are all found in the Quran in various places, some more detailed than others)

Editted to add... glad we can agree on something.

 

[juantoo3]

"That" being the essential moral code...so yes, the stone tablets of Moses. Is there a basic list from the Quran?

 

[BigJoeNobody]

"That" being the essential moral code...so yes, the stone tablets of Moses. Is there a basic list from the Quran?

The tenants of that are all over the Quran. If you'd like to know 1 or so parallels to each of the 10 in question, It may be better to start a new thread as I believe this one is supposed to be limited to If common ground is even a possible thing.

The parallels I will just say are vast between Abrahamics especially if the Bible is read from an Islamic POV (which I know is a discussion in itself that If one could interpret a book by using other understanding than its adherents)

 

[juantoo3]

That might be a good idea. If you would be agreeable, so it is located in the same place although many pages later, there is an existing thread I would copy to anyway, so a post there would probably be best. Morality in Evolution, let me find it to link to...

http://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/1360/page-23
should be the last page. Thanks!

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I'm a big fan of titles matching discussions So I will create one,
http://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/17657/

 

[juantoo3]

Fair enough...copy/paste is a wonderful tool, so if you don't mind I will add it to the other thread at a more convenient time.

Thank you!

 

[Shibolet]

It is 'too large' only if you make it so. Focus on the the handful of world religions and choose only the ethical principles they have in common. Then no problem. Ignoring points of conflict is not that difficult, if one is serious about sharing a common ground.

I am afraid you are missing what we mean here. We are not referring to ethical principles as common ground, but points of doctrines between religions. When we compare the NT for instance with the Tanach aka Jewish Bible, it is hard to find a common ground.

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

I am afraid you are missing what we mean here. We are not referring to ethical principles as common ground, but points of doctrines between religions. When we compare the NT for instance with the Tanach aka Jewish Bible, it is hard to find a common ground.

I am 'missing' your point deliberately because doctrines are the main source of conflict. If one wants a common ground it can never be found in the mental arena.

 

[wil]

I am afraid you are missing what we mean here. We are not referring to ethical principles as common ground, but points of doctrines between religions. When we compare the NT for instance with the Tanach aka Jewish Bible, it is hard to find a common ground.

On one hand you claim that Jesus was a Jew and his teachings are Jewish and folks stole Jesus from you....and now you can't find common ground from what he said/taught/did and judaism??

I am 'missing' your point deliberately because doctrines are the main source of conflict. If one wants a common ground it can never be found in the mental arena.

Appears this just may be so... to you.

 

[Shibolet]

I am 'missing' your point deliberately because doctrines are the main source of conflict. If one wants a common ground it can never be found in the mental arena.

Now yes, thank you for confirming my views.

 

[Shibolet]

On one hand you claim that Jesus was a Jew and his teachings are Jewish and folks stole Jesus from you....and now you can't find common ground from what he said/taught/did and judaism??
Appears this just may be so... to you.

Not only I but all Christians, including the NT. The point is that I interpret Jesus for what he was, a Jew, and you interpret him as a Greek demigod from your understanding of Paul in Acts 9:20. That's the point why there is no common ground between Jews and Christians.

 

[wil]

lol....there you go again... I and all Christians (that I know) are fully aware that Jesus was a Jew...and the Jews rejected his teachings...(not all of them...)

And there is incredible common ground between Jews and Christians... I even know a synagogue that has been combined with a church for years...

The separation you've created is of your own doing and not common to the Jews I know....nor all the Jews you know....but you know that...you know your interpretation is unique and not followed by most...hence your struggle to promote it in forum after forum after forum using name after name after name...

 

[Shibolet]

1 - lol....there you go again... I and all Christians (that I know) are fully aware that Jesus was a Jew...and the Jews rejected his teachings...(not all of them...)

2 - And there is incredible common ground between Jews and Christians... I even know a synagogue that has been combined with a church for years...

3 - The separation you've created is of your own doing and not common to the Jews I know....nor all the Jews you know....but you know that...you know your interpretation is unique and not followed by most...hence your struggle to promote it in forum after forum after forum using name after name after name...

1 - As far as I am concerned, only about 20% of the NT is of and about Jesus. The other 80% is made up of anti-Jewish interpolations to enhance the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. What we really reject are the teachings of Paul which were against the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism.

2 - Would you be so kind as to share with me a thing or two we could see as common ground between Jews and Christians?

3 - I have claimed no separation between Jews and Gentiles. In fact, that was exactly what Jesus did when he forbade his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles, especially Samaritans. (Mat. 10:5,6) I wonder if you have noticed, I quote every thing I say. The problem is that Christians don't like to be reminded of the things in the NT which contradict their Christian pre-conceived notions.

 

[wil]

1... as far as you are concerned.... Christians aren't hugely concerned with your concerns in this regard.... we are confused as to why a Jew doesn't just focus on his 617 commandments...

2. common ground? first 2/3 of the bible... living, eating, breathing air.... conflict, consternation, rabble rousing...these are choices you are making...

3. That isn't Pauline.... nor do any of us know if that is the words of Jesus or the author (who probably never knew Jesus) and his agenda...

 

[Shibolet]

1... as far as you are concerned.... Christians aren't hugely concerned with your concerns in this regard.... we are confused as to why a Jew doesn't just focus on his 617 commandments...

2. common ground? first 2/3 of the bible... living, eating, breathing air.... conflict, consternation, rabble rousing...these are choices you are making...

3. That isn't Pauline.... nor do any of us know if that is the words of Jesus or the author (who probably never knew Jesus) and his agenda...

1 - I am discussing with Christians whom the 613 commandments do not apply to.

2 - Those points do not require common ground. Theology, doctrines and Replacement Theology do.

3 - Well, I quoted the gospel in which the statement can be verified. You had only to check it out. Again, Mat. 10:5,6. I don't believe it myself but hey, it is written in your own Bible. Jesus as a Jew, knew much better that we have been assigned with the role to serve as light unto the Gentiles. (Isa. 42:6)

 

[juantoo3]

Paul turned Jesus into a god

Paul had a LOT of help in performing that task, most of it about 250 years later.