Original Sin

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by BigJoeNobody, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,759
    Likes Received:
    1,922
    No devil critter sitting on my shoulder...just that internal free will making the wrong choice... Or taking a side path for extra credit...
     
  2. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    788
    Don't worry about the Demons resting in plain site. Worry about the ones hiding within......:eek:
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,759
    Likes Received:
    1,922
    I did say internal...the devil is our own creation..
     
  4. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    121
    in your opinion of course...
     
  5. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    413
    I see. That's not too far off the Christian idea that God gives us power over Satan in Christ's name.
    I kind of see it that way too.
     
  6. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    79
    Have any of you ever read "The Wizard of Oz"? I have a leather bound copy. Quiet enlightening. The story begins with Dorothy...
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,759
    Likes Received:
    1,922
    Lol...every post here is opinion....especially when it comes to believing in gods or devils
     
  8. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    413
    ...and what character do you play? Scarecrow I suspect.:D
     
  9. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    138
    Thanks for your question Aussie...! Yes there's no "Satan" for Baha'is as a being that is at war with God...

    Here are some excerpts from Baha'i sources:

    The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm.

    God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man.

    (Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77)
     
  10. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    413
    Thanks mate. Quite helpful.
     
  11. socialleper

    socialleper New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    The idea of "original sin" was shoe horned in later.
    The Genesis store was a Hebrew story before it was Christian, and they have no concept of the "Devil", Hell, or Sin as Christians do. For them Satan was one of god's trust angles whose job it was to test the faith of humans. The OT never links Satan to the serpent in the garden.
    The NT doesn't really either and wasn't introduced until about the 2nd century.
    What's more everything about the "Devil" is very confused and largely the work of Dante and Milton. The Devil is only mentioned in passing as a keeper of the underworld, Satan is never directly associated with that, neither is Lucifer (which is shown a separate wood cuts as a different individual), and that figure is never shown as being equal to or opposed to god. Satan tempted humans, but only at god's instruction.
    So why have it? As an answer to the smart mouths that say "I'm a just man that has never sinned, I don't need saving." The manufactured response is "Oh no, we are ALL sinful because....because....because of Adam and Eve." Very convenient.
    To make this argument even less valid, there is the fact (barring, of course that Creationism through Genesis is proven wrong) that based on the scripture Adam and Eve weren't the progenitors of all human kind. Hebrew scripture wasn't intended to be universal, it was intended to be for the Hebrews. Adam and Eve may have been the first Hebrews, but they weren't the first and only humans. If they were, where did their children's spouses come from? When Cain is cast out, God marks him so he would be killed by anyone else. Who is this anyone else?
    So as far as I can tell Original Sin is merely a convenient control mechanism.
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    10
    I seriously question the highlighted in terms of Jewish belief systems. It resembles a warmed over rewording of Original Sin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,535
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Well it's there plain as day in the Hebrew Scriptures.
     
    Aetius likes this.
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,535
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Yes, this is an ancient view of God as suffering uncertainty and unknowing ... later developments saw God as without flaw and thus the idea of needing or indulging one of His angels was deemed unworthy of God, it's the kind of stunt man plays, not God.

    Check John 8:44.

    O agree with this. Once the medieval mind got going, sheesh, the things it came up with!

    Not in Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.

    Again, not in Christ's view. God does not inflict suffering on man to test his faith, this was, and continues to be, a sentimental notion.

    You're obviously unaware of the theological discussions on the nature of man and the nature of sin.

    Yes, that appears to be the standard meme.
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    10
    No it is not!!!! Please cite in detail.

    You cited it was the Jewish view, and that is false! Please cite references to this claim.

     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,535
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    LOL, Yes it is!!!!! Genesis 2:8 "And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed man whom he had formed." The Garden of Eden was paradise, and man was there, but was subsequently ejected.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    10
    This does not explain 'Original Sin' in that these acts by Adam and Eve as a stain of Sin carried by all future human generations.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,535
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    It was a response to your comment to the points I made:
    Genesis 2 and 3 states clearly that man was created, lived in Paradise, disobeyed the Divine command not to eat of the fruit of the tree and was therefore expelled, and that his seed suffer the state into which Adam and Eve fell.

    It's quite clear, really.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    10
    From the historical Jewish view this is not 'quite clear,' and again this does not explain the belief that 'these acts by Adam and Eve as a stain of Sin carried by all future human generations.'
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,535
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    What point are you not clear on?
     

Share This Page