My hypotheses so far....

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Vivandall, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. Vivandall

    Vivandall New Member

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    After researching religions on and off for some time, up to now, I think the religions that are most likely to be real are:
    1.Sunni Islam(by a wide margin)
    2.Theravada Buddhism
    3. Maybe Gnosticism or something like that

    What do you guys think?
    For Sunni Islam, there seem to be miracles like arabic words on fishes and tomatoes ,you might say it is because of mutation or something ,but maybe that is the thing! Maybe Allah make arabic language in such a way that it occur so naturally on the natural world ! there is also the Quran, like some words are repeated a certain amount of times, and I read that even arabic scholars of the time could not produce verses that can compete with the quran in terms of literary value(not sure what is the right word, but I think you guys should google on it) And then that is that thing on moon-splitting ,I read that a king saw the moon splitted and then when it is known to him that it is related to Islam ,he went and become a muslim.

    Theravada Buddhism, I think this branch of Buddhism is more likely to be authentic since Mahayana did accept documents which comes from unknown sources, but I think theravada buddhism also left out some things that are taught by the Buddha which might be a problem, personally it is easier for me to believe in reincarnation ,because I feel like one chance on earth is insufficient for someone to be evaluated justly , with reincarnation it is more fair imo. And I like how in depth Gautama Buddha explains something. Nirvana as the endpoint seem to make more sense than paradise imo, because I feel like nothing can last forever. And imo overall the world is viewed like " boring and slightly bad" ,as in there is reincarnation which is boring and kinda bad but not too bad. Like to cook something ,you need to buy materials to cook , cook it , eat it ,you might overate or eat insufficiently and then you need to wash the dishes, most of the process is boring or tiresome except the eating part and even then you might even overeat or eat not enough!You get what I mean?
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    If both (or all three) are 'real', how do you justify the differences?
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    And welcome to the forum...
     
  4. Vivandall

    Vivandall New Member

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    Islam is not mutually inclusive to the other two. And I have some problems accepting the abrahamic God (like being above law instead of being bounded by some laws so I propose gnosticism as a 3rd possibility), perhaps I feel more in tune with indian religions which seem more spiritual in general.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  5. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I'm going to try and not be biased, or to do dawa, but it will be quite difficult given your posts...
    i think you mean it is not mutually "exclusive". And the short of it is yes and no. Islam is a religion that is not needing other religions to work. Some forms of Buddhism could maybe be followed while following Islam, but are unnecessary and will cause the person a much more difficult time trying to balance them both. Gnosticism, is kindof accepting all religious texts, and not giving any complete authority, This isn't going to work with Islam in that sense, but if instead you Take the Quran as the final word, and Sahih Hadith to be explanations of how to impliment and understand, then you could also look at the other texts for an extended view. This is how I use the Bible. The Quran Supercedes it, but if there is a good lesson in it that isn't as easy to understand from the Quran, I will use it... given it doesn't contradict the Quran or logic.

    What is it exactly that you have problems accepting? He is above the laws, yes, Because Allah created this existence. He isn't bound to laws because there is nothing to enforce it upon him, he is above all. Now If it helps to understand his workings, you can look at his traits as his bounds, but remember that they are who he is, not what bounds him. For instance the First line of the Quran. Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem. (In the Name of Allah, The entirely Merciful, the especially merciful.) The names Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem denote attributes. Allah himself gave us these attributes to describe him. Rahman Is very specific in its meaning. I cannot give a better answer to the meanings of them both better than Nouman Ali Khan. If you look him up, there is an explanation of this 1 phrase that is over 2 hours long.

    The key to Islam is Shahada... Once you accept that there is one and only God, then you must accept that Mouhammed (PBUH) is his messenger. In accepting this, the rest is shown. If there is a God who is omnipresent and Omniscient, there can be only 1. If he wanted us to know this he would send people who would know this. And from there the Idea that one should follow his laws, and his messenger's path are kinda self explanatory.

    All in all I hope you make your way to what is correct. And if my way isn't it, I hope you find a way that is correct for you
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    it would help greatly when you use Arabic instead of English to educate us with the translation...
     
  7. Vivandall

    Vivandall New Member

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    What is the islamic stance on fate of people who knows about Islam but do not believe in it (as in what happens after they die), I mean if they can't make up their mind on it ,it is not their fault that they don't convert to islam right? If Allah exists, he probably has a body right? Where does it exist then? What is the purpose of his existence? Why can he do what he wills? What I said about not mutually inclusive, what I mean is mutually exclusive to other beliefs stated,as it is not compatible with other worldviews.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  8. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I felt it had been discussed enough times to pass on that one... my mistake... Dawa literally means Invitation, but in the way it is commonly used is similar to evangelizing.

    http://quran.com/2/161-162
    I'm not going to sugar coat anything for you. If Islam is correct, and you disbelieve after you've heard it, there is only punishment awaiting on the other side. There are some who say, well as long as you don't commit shirk, you will go to paradise as well. But this isn't guaranteed. And to be fair on that, noone is guaranteed. Not even the Prophets (PBUTA). We must all stand up for our judgement. And only Allah knows what is in our hearts.

    To answer what I'm assuming was meant as a rhetorical question, it is their fault. If you have enough time to research it and deem it as you say is most likely correct, then what you are doing is essentially looking for a way out. If you had found a problem, you would have already written it off, and rightfully so IMO. The fact that the post in #7 is a question asking what happens if I put it off, shows you already know it to be there, and you are just waiting because you are scared of something. Is this true?

    I'm going to stop now... because I can tell I'm getting too evangelical. If you really want to talk about if it is right for you on a personal level let me know and I will set up a PM so we can discuss it in private mediums. I'm sure the Others are tired of my discussion already, but i'm not gonna delete it. :D
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Just wanted to add, If you have questions about what Islam says about (insert scenario here), please go to the Islam section and ask away. If you want someone to help you understand if you believe in Islam, that is where we might be looking into a PM. It is not something that is very Interfaithy... Which is a totally real word that will be added to Websters in 25 years...:rolleyes:
     
  10. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    Well a lot of Islam will be perfectly compatible with a lot of Buddhism, but whats the point? More importantly what do you want form both? They are both different kind of teachings. Buddhist "mind training" is pretty awesome, very practical compared to alot of other fluff. Tantric buddhism is even more practical, although "impure" from theravada taste. But you will find all that and more in sufi islam (inclusive in sunni islam). So what are you looking for?

    If God gets under the law, who made the law then? Another God? turtles all the way? God has to be the most supreme, if something is above him, he is not God then.

    islamic stance on people who knows about Islam but do not believe in it.>> Depends on your definition of knowing. I know chile, but all I know about chile is that its a country named chile. There is too much confusing information out there about Islam, so I dont know what would happen to all those people.

    About the people who dont know about islam
    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...167511-what-if-i-never-heard-about-islam.html

    If Allah exists, he probably has a body right? Where does it exist then? >>Does space exist?, does it has a body? why does it exist? etc etc
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  12. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    They used to be very orthodox chishti mystics from south asia, then they dropped sharia, third generation mixed some buddhism, so I dont know how authentic the tradition is right now. If you want to get something out of your practice, it should have a complete unbroken tradition. There are many out there in US. Mevlevis/Jerrahis from Turkey, Naqshbandis/Qadris/Chishtis from south asia and Shadhilis from North Africa etc.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    This group uses phrases, scripture, and prayers from most traditions and the forms them into dance movements and chants...moves to the music and is very meditative...honoring various belief systems into prayers for peace and understanding for all wherever they are on earth and in spirit.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    A bit like a religious theme park? Looks like religious tourism to me ...
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I find the most progressive of all religions leading toward connection with others...

    In Islam it is these mystical radical sufis, in Judaism those that are of the renewal synagogues, in Christianity it is found in the New Thought churches that grew out of the transcendentalists....

    Outside...those UUs... I've found pictures of Jesus in Hindu temple as a guru.... And yes... I gravitate to all these places and enjoy the company I've found.
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Really?

    My point was this appears to be picking the nice n fluffy sentimental bits. If you want to honour a religion, you do the religion, or at least respect it for what it does, you don't take the bits you like and set up a stall offering some order of ersatz engagement, all surface and no substance ... like I said, that's just marketing the baubles for the tourists ...

    I know, there's radicals in all religions! They're just examples of the process. I prefer my Sufis to be Sufi, my Buddhists to be Buddhists, and not going for the 'broad consumer appeal' ... but that's the way of politics everywhere these days, as politicians try to capture the 'middle ground'. I suppose it's a milk and meat thing.

    LOL, I think you just like anything radical, because it's called radical!

    (And one day I'll explain how 'New Thought' is actually 'old European thought' dressed up!)
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Let me explain ...

    I've stated here often, my 're-version' to Christianity was triggered by a Tibetan Buddhist. When it comes to authentic interfaith, then the writers of the Sophia Perennis are second to none, and that to me is what authentic interfaith is, pointing out the transcendent truths that are highlighted in all the great Traditions ... I see nothing to be achieved in skimming traditions for what's palatable, or 'reinterpreting' traditions to make them fit the latest local social trend.

    So that stand-outs for me are the likes of Thomas Merton, who speak universally from deep within their respective traditions.
     
  18. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    Kind of agree with Thomas here. A mystical tradition is supposed to catalyze a healthy detachment from world, full flowering of the self and realization of God (kind of standard sufi objective). Buddhist tradidtion is interested in complete and irreversible end of suffering (and to some rebirth in pure realms). Mysticism is hard work, and it isnt necessarily feel good stuff. Feel good stuff isnt necessarily right stuff. In the west since there isnt any native spiritual tradition, and also because of a certain disdain for anything authentically spiritual, there is a big market for the "mishmash spirituality" which picks cherries, strawberries and pineapples from here and there but throw away the cake, because nobody is gonna buy deeper stuff.

    Anyways, just my 2c. Your priorities are for you to decide.:)
     
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Reading Thomas Merton was part of what got me on this path... I did not invent renewal Judaism, Sufism, or new thought... I do enjoy the connection to others though and the non judgemental approach with those groups which I often find lacking in others...and here right now

    Yes...nothing new about new thought...we are aware.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Good points. Sadly the native spiritual traditions got stamped out. I don't think Wicca is, that's largely a Romance invention. Celtic Christianity managed a synthesis but that too went as Rome stamped its imprimatur on everything.

    'Mysticism' today is the misbegotten child of pseudo-spirituality. It's not even the point or purpose of religion, although each tradition is, in its own way, a Revelation of the Mysteries, even if, as in Buddhism, the mystery is the cause of suffering.

    As ever, in these things its a matter of depth and discernment.
     

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