If prayer works

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    I addressed this in my initial response. Yes millions are praying. Thing is, God anticipated and answered those prayers long before the request was ever made. In answer to our prayers, God has given each faith guidelines to follow in order to live peaceably, but it's up to us whether or not we follow those guidelines. As long as man continues to exercise his freewill in a negative way, turmoil will continue to exist. Prayer has little to do with it as the answer to prayers for peace has already been provided.

    You can pray that your football team does not receive a penalty, but if just 1 player breaks the rules, the entire team suffers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
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  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    This is the exact answer I would expect from an Islamic standpoint as well.

    Very well said.

    But all is not lost necessarily based on the 1 mistake. you may still win if you correct that issue. This is why there is such a thing as forgiveness. A mistake shouldn't condemn anyone, but if one persists in doing what they know to be wrong, they will surely be of the losers.
     
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  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    If prayers for peace have been answered the answer must be "No" or "Not now/yet"
     
  4. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    That's like blaming the ref for giving the team a penalty when a fellow teammate breaks the rules they all agreed to abide by. In response to prayers for peace, God gave man everything needed to achieve it; long before the request was ever made. It's man that has failed to play by the rules, thereby saying no to God. It never ceases to amaze me how man is so willing to accept credit for all that is good in the world and turns around and blames God for all that is bad, when it's the other way around.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Did someone take credit? Did someone blame god?
     
  6. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    As I said, "It's man that has failed to play by the rules, thereby saying no to God." and I might add, rejecting God's answer to our prayers or failing to see the answer is also saying no to God. IMHO
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Rejecting gods answer to our prayers...

    Who had done that... And how?
     
  8. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    It was intended as a general statement, but in a round about way that's what you did by saying this,
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    If you invent a full contact sport for 14 year olds, and it is said that with the pads the kids are 100% safe from harm (for argument sake lets leave the hypothetical ways the kid can get hurt with all the armor on) They are told to leave the armor on for the entirety of the match. But eventually a small group removes them from their legs due to a perception that their legs rarely get hit, and couldn't get hurt. Another group removes their helmets because they are hot and uncomfortable. And Yet another group removes the armor all together reaching for the higher performance of not being restricted by movement Which grants them a great winning advantage at first. The sport begins to suffer from so many injuries that the people stop playing all together and looking down on those that do. Yet there is still a group that wears the pads that can play in complete safety, and some others that wear most of the pads allowing for a bit tougher time with injuries, but overall ok. Is it the fault of the sport or the people who removed some pads or ones who removed them all?

    The Question isn't supposed to be "Why didn't God answer my prayers?" It's "What does God know that I don't that I and/or others may benefit more by not allowing that which I asked for?"
     
  10. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Well-Known Member

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    The problem is simply the origin and maintenance of that sport but the answer to your statement/question is an unequivocal "what". If you are saying that we get what we deserve but not necessarily what we ask for I completely agree. However that is not the way I read your post.
     
  11. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I would substitute "deserve" with "What God wills" as it can be Either what you want, or something else. The idea is he is going to give you what he wants you to have, and you have to do with it what He has instructed... He might have someone lose a bag of money on your way to work... just because you asked for financial help... If you take it and spend it though, you are committing a sin (Islamic POV here). that money should be returned if possible, or donated.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Another thread got me contemplating prayer or praying for contemplation.

    I still have issues with the concept...

    I lean toward the go in the closet, shut the door methods.

    I cringe at the street corner preachers and 50 yard line coaches thinking the lord will smile on their team.

    I appreciate the end zone kneeling giving thanx for a safe game and healing of injuries on both sides.

    The "your glorious all-knowing omnipotence your lowly servant has discovered an error in your plan that you must repair to satisfy me." Doesn't resonate as much as the "take this cup from me, not my wil, but thy wil be done"

    I strive to accept the cards that are dealt, do the best I can with them...and wait for the reshuffle.

    Pray but move your feet...
     
  13. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    What would you pray for, if you did believe in God?
     
  14. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Without invitation not even angels may interfere with Man's free will, imo.

    Strange and humbling that God's angels needs Man's permission before they can assist. Human nature is what it is. God won't make mankind perfect. This world will never be perfect. But I believe God will respond to an individual's sincere prayer for courage, or humility, or to reasonable worldly prayers such as for work in order to earn to feed his family, etc ...

    Anyway, how can a human person decide how God should operate? How does Man know this apparent reality is not a dream he'll wake up from, or that this reality is not the womb he'll be born from to a wider reality?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    World peace. The willingness to provide care and compassion and respect for all creatures and our planet.
     
  16. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    That would be asking God to take away human free will. Is that realistic?
     
  17. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    It would be asking God to make other people into what I want them to be?
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Is it unrealistic to do an unrealistic thing asking an unrealistic being for an unrealistic favor?
    You asked the question and did not like the answer?
     
  19. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But if you believed in God, it would not be unrealistic to ask a favour of God? If a person believed in God, they would not think it unrealistic to address reasonable requests?

    But would it be reasonable to ask God to turn Monday back to Sunday because I don't want to go to work? Or to bring my mother back to life so I can tell her I'm sorry?
     
  20. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    The prayer for one's team to win is contemplative prayer?

    Also, there are religions with call-and-response group prayer. That doesn't work in solitude.
     

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