Which were the gods of the Indus Valley civilization and did they teach concepts of God?

Discussion in 'Eastern Religions and Philosophies' started by Rak, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    The Three major oldest civilizations in the world are Egypt, Sumer, and the Indus Valley. The latter lasted until 1500 BC.
    [​IMG]

    Scholars most usually say that the language was Dravidian and that the Aryans did not arrive until 2200-1500 BC, while its climax was in 2700-2400 BC. Until scholars do DNA tests on lots of skeletons I think this question will not be solved for the scholars collectively and we won't have a single definite answer as to what their ethnicity and language group were.

    Based on the theory that the language was Dravidian, some attempts have been made to decipher the Harappan writings, but those writings are also a mystery. I think that to solve it we will have to begin with the DNA tests and work from there, based on the language.

    This brings us to our next question - of religion. We can see that Hinduism is a mix of Indo-European figures like Indra and local deities, probably including Krishna. Hinduism has changed over 3000 years+, with some deities getting less attention, like Dyaus Pita. So based on our knowledge of archeaology and with support from Hinduism, can we say reliably who the gods of the Indus civilization were?

    Robert Speer writes in The Handbook of Tibetan Buddhist Symbols
    about a Shiva Pashupati seal found from the Harappans with Shiva and deer, and about the wheel symbol referring to the sun:
    However, I don't know of any Shiva seal with deer. I only know of a Shiva Pashupati-like seal from there and also a Celtic seal from Europe that resembles it with a deer:
    I did find a separate image of a deity fighting two tigers beneath a wheel symbol, which brings to mind for me the image of the sun in the sky:
    [​IMG]

    A website by Swami Nathan claims about this image:

    However, the figure in the seal looks a bit like a woman with a breast and a big puff of hair, so I am skeptical that it is Indra. And I'm skeptical that it's a "chakra", because it looks like a Dharma wheel instead.

    The same author says:
    So this author basically undermines his claim that it's Indra by saying that it's a "female figure" that he calls a "tiger goddess".

    Here is what seems to me to be another Indus tablet with a different heading on the same story of a figure fighting two tigers:
    [​IMG]

    Swami Nathan writes more on the theme of a tiger-fighting goddess here:

    He proposes these analogies in Hinduism for the tiger seals:
    He then shows a modern Hindu drawing of the goddess Durga riding a tiger.

    Another website called "Indus Script code deciphered" does show what looks more like a Chakra sign from an Indus valley seal:

    When it talks about the Sanctum of the Goddess, I think it might mean the goddess Amman. But I am not sure what the circular hole is that this passage is referring to. I am not even sure that it's a chakra symbol in the lower right of the tablet in the picture. It looks more to me like a Dharma wheel with a flower symbol of petals on the outer rim of the wheel.

    These are Chakras:
    [​IMG]
    SOURCE: http://www.kacha-stones.com/chakras.htm


    Stephen Knapp claims in "The Power of the Dharma: An Introduction to Hinduism and Vedic Culture" that
    "Statiues of Rishabha, the firsth Thirthankara and founder of Jainism, were found in Mohenjadaro and Harappa excavations. " But I think he could be mistaken, because I heard that some Jains were guessing that the image that looked like Shiva Pashupati from the Harappan findings was Rishabha.

    So what do you think about who the gods were of the Harappan civilization?

    Do you think that concepts like Om, the Chakra, the Swastika, and the Dharma wheel were part of Indus civilization, and were they connected to perceptions of God?
     
  2. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    N.S. Rajaram writes about Harappan symbols, including the Swastika, featured below:

    He also claims that a version of the Hindu "Om" sign is found in Indus society. Here is the modern Om sign:
    [​IMG]

    And:
    [​IMG]
    He says that the Om sign is known also as pranavakshara and then proposes:
    So we can see from the seal that the Pipal tree, which is probably what is shown due to its emphasis in the Vedas, is considered sacred. It isn't clear to me though that the image above is a bow or that the Vedic verses cited refer to the sign of the Om.

    However, the claim that this Indus seal is Om is repeated elsewhere:
    [​IMG]

    Dr. N. Patel makes the same claim:
    However, if you look at the bottom of this image, you can see the Indus writing. It is read from right to left: Fish sign and then a tree leaf sign. This means that the picture on the left is the one that is in the correct position, because the Indus writing was left to right, not top to bottom.

    The writer continues:
    To clarify: In Kannada language, Om looks like: ಓಂ
    I see a close resemblance, although it's not exact.



    The website Indus Script Code deciphered proposes a special writing for the Om sign in Indus script. It looks like he is crediting Asko Parpola's research.
    https://sites.google.com/site/indusharappacivilization/home/-om-in-vedic-mantra
    He next compares these signs to what is known to be Om in Malayam script and others:

    I see a resemblance in the case of Tamil and Grantha.

    A book review of Asko Parpola's The Roots of Hinduism explains his theory that "Om" comes from the concept of giving permission and is related to Dravidian "Am" (yes):
    This reminds me a bit of the ritual Abrahamic use of the word "Amen", which means that someone is in agreement in Hebrew.

    Parpola explains theories about the meaning of Om at length in his 1980 paper:
    https://www.scribd.com/doc/15050686/Parpola-Om
     
  3. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Swami Nathan also writes about the Seven wives (pleiades)/ seven Krithikas, and a tablet he sees as depicting human sacrifice. He shows a picture of the Seven women tablet:
    https://tamilandvedas.com/2012/08/22/tiger-goddess-of-indus-valley/

    Here is where he claims that this is connected with human sacrifice:
    Personally, it is not clear to me from the tablet that there is a head on a stool:
    [​IMG]
    I am also skeptical that this is Boora-Pennu as opposed to some other deity.


    To sum up, theories and educated guesses include:

    • figure like Shiva Pashupati
    • tiger-fighting goddess, Durga riding a tiger
    • sun wheel symbol,
    • Om,
    • Swastika,
    • The seven wives of the sages

    Guesses about what concepts they had that I am skeptical about include
    • Chakra,
    • Indra,
    • Boora-Pennu
     
  4. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Additional question: Could the god Mhasoba be related to the Shiva-like figure sitting down in the tablet as some scholars claim?

    [​IMG]

    D. Kosambi writes in Myth and Reality that the Indus seal with its image of a Shiva-like horned figure is a prototype of the later Hindu ideas and that this is connected with the buffalo god Mhasobe.
    Dr. Pradip Bhattacharya writes in his review of Coburn's "Devi Mahatmya" paper that it would be a worthwhile avenue to pursue the importance of Mhasoba:
    http://www.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Mobile&sd=Articles&ArticleID=3965

    Sri Vidya proposes this explanation:
    http://urdhwa.blogspot.com/2010/12/hindu-tantra-tradition.html

    This reminds me of the animals seated next to the Shiva Pashupati figure. Maybe it means that Shiva took those forms.

    The Indian Express has an article called The riddle of Mhatoba, Mhaskoba and Mahishasura , which goes into this question about whether Mhasoba, who may be associated with Shiva, is connected to Mahisha Ashura. It even adds that some Indians worship Mahisha directly today:
    http://www.latestnews360.com/readmo...dle of Mhatoba, Mhaskoba and Mahishasura.html

    What do you think?
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,316
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    There was a question?
     
  6. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes. I would like to please ask what were the gods of the Indus Valley Civilization. I only found a couple in these articles, but I'm sure there were more.
     
  7. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    600
    Rak likes this.
  8. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for sharing, Namaste.
     
    Namaste Jesus likes this.
  9. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Another interesting thing for me was the theory that Om goes back to at least the time of the Harappan civilization.

    In his essay "On the Primary Meaning and Etymology of the Sacred Syllable OM", Asko Parpola compares the root meanings of Om in Dravidian and the Sanskrit Vedas. He quotes from the Vedas where they say that Om means to give permission, and he finds cases in Dravidian culture where Aum means Yes, and he concludes that they are related. He writes in his conclusion:
    We have ... seen [in section 3.5 of the essay] that Om and the synonymous tatha "yes" were used as responses to each single verse in the recitals of ancient popular narratives, during such Vedic rituals as the royal consecration and the horse/human sacrifice (which in all likelihood are of pre-Vedic Indian origin) * * Citation: Parpola's book published in 1980.

    Conclusion

    [There are] other aspects relating to the early religious uses of the sacred syllable Om, particularly in connection with the cult of the (rising) sun. In my opinion this word of the utmost religious importance provides yet another proof that the religion of pre-Vedic India goes back to a large extent to a Dravidian substratum. I have discussed elsewhere another key term of early Vedic religion, kimpurusha, coming to a similar concusion. In that and other connections I have given grounds for my basic working hyposthesis, accoprding to which the Dravidian substatum is to be linked with the Harappan culture. Its traditions were transmitted to Vedic times by an earlier wave of non-Vedic Aryans, the Dashas and Vratyas.

    SOURCE: https://www.scribd.com/doc/15050686/Parpola-Om
    What do you think about this theory?
     
  10. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    600
    The sound OM or Aum has deep spiritual meaning for many, going well beyond simple affirmation. Many do believe it predates the Vedas and that it's essence is found in religions other than Hindu. You may find this link interesting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  11. Rak

    Rak Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks, Namaste.
     

Share This Page