Non-duality

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Thomas, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Bhagwan

    Bhagwan Member

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    you cant be a "part "of the whole,everything doesnt have parts.
     
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    So that makes one transcendent to the whole.
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Logically, not possible.

    If one truly experience the Absolute, one would cease to exist ... so anyone who has spoken of the Transcendent Absolute is speculating, really, based on partial and relative experience.

    Unless, of course, there is something that holds the individual being in question, draws the individual out of themselves, and then returns the individual back.

    It's like the 'drop in the ocean' analogy: we are all drops in the ocean, to experience what it is to be ocean, we have to cease being a drop, and once we've ceased being a drop, we cannot return to that drop again, that drop no longer exists ...

    The way I see it, we can participate in, by degree, but that's always an allowance, a sharing according to our capacity to receive the gift, but we can never be 'It', or if we can, we are no longer 'here' to talk about it ...

    Eckhart, for example, is regarded as The Prince of Mystics (in the Catholic Tradition), but he never claimed to have had a mystical experience. He never claimed to have experienced that which he spoke of, nor is there anything in his writings that suggest as much.
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Not only do I not concede to this classic analogy, I belong to the camp of Hindu philosophy that has always held that this analogy is a myth.

    Finding a needle in a large hay stack is difficult but if methodically done is guaranteed to succeed in finding the needle.

    The 'drop in the ocean' analogy is really saying Finding a needle in a large hill of needles is very difficult ---but why would anyone think that all those needles are one needle?

    A 'drop in the ocean' holds molecules of H2O. Atomic fisson is about splitting apart the atom of an individual molecule. Molecules don't merge into eachother.
     
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  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    When I scoop a bucket from the ocean I don't have all of the ocean in the bucket, but I do have all of the ocean in the bucket... And when I return it it is immediately unrecognizable from the rest of the ocean. I scoop another bucket, and it instantly has the same content as the last...
     
  6. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Why are you mixing analogies, the needles and hay stacks have nothing to do with drops in the ocean.
    In fact, I think that it's unfortunate that you try to disprove the analogy through chemistry since the fact that all the molecules that were previously drop-shaped now indistinguishable from the innumerable number of other molecules that make up the ocean.
     
  7. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    One molecule may very well be indistinguishable from the next, but they do still individually exist. As does one seemingly unidentifiable needle in a massive pile of identical needles.

    Put another way, one drop of water falling into the ocean does not negate the existence of the individual molecules it was comprised of.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  8. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    No, but the individual molecules have surrendered there form and individuality to become one with the all ...

    I suppose I'm arguing one can experience non-duality, but that experience will always be provisional, because it is still something experiencing something, so dual in that regard.

    A wo/man walks down the beach towards the sea. As s/he does so, s/he undresses, casting aside clothes which, the moment they are released, vanish into the air as if they never existed. As s/he dives into the waves, s/he too dissolves entirely, until no lasting vestige remains ... there is nothing to 'come back', and it begs the question, why would you want to?
     
  9. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    I don't quite share your perspective here, but I suppose we can still agree in principle.
    Now this gave me a good chuckle. Quite the flight of fancy there old boy!;)
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Stop kabitzing so loudly, I am still watching her walk into the waves
     
  11. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Hey, dibs on screenplay rights!:D
     
  12. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I see this post by Thomas as very advanced. I do not see honest frank replies on it by any one. Yet.

    Why would you want the naked woman to disappear? No one wants Maryann nor Ginger to go poof.
     
  13. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Well then it's the same for people and their temporary existence.
    But if you were a stone deep in the middle of the Giza Pyramid you'd be safe and snug and famous!
     
  14. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Yeah what's wrong with this explanation? Rock-envy?

    Every brick in a structure has a number. Each brick was planned, invested in and paid for and each stands fast as a sentinel to its own duty.

    Each and all is accounted for.
     
  15. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Did I summerise Oneness correctly?
    So there is such a thing as ONE-NESS??

    Question:
    When ONE-NESS is achieved ...there is No Left, no right, no up, no down, no forward, no backwards, no in and no out?

    Answer:
    Absolute Yes(?)
     
  16. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting, every poster read it as an attractive woman.
     
  17. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Yes that's an interesting aspect.
    Since your post I thought OMG:

    In absolute contra-distinction, it occurs to me to mention here:

    The meaning of the name "Krishna" is "The 'all-attractive.' [God attracts everyone ---this is the definition of 'God's Personage.']

    God = the supreme personality of Attractive-ness.

    Hence, it concurs that the soul can never vanish or dissolve. The soul by its own constitution actively seeks "The 'all-attractive"
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Hey. He asked me to imagine. I'll not be responsible for where my mind goes ....
     
  19. Bhagwan

    Bhagwan Member

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    Duality doesnt exist,the seperate self creates the illusion that there we are things in a world of other things.
    non-duality is a term used to point to the way things realy are,so you cant practice non-duality
     
  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    While i understand nothing ... it seems a separate self creating and illusion...seems separtate from itself...or dual? (runs back behind drapes to watch)
     

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