You should believe as me...

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Proselytizing ... Getting converts... Everybody believing as you...


    How important is it to your religion?

    How important is it to you?
     
  2. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    I prefer belief over non-belief, but religious preference is much less a concern. I will spread the word as it were and give my POV when appropriate to interested parties, but not with the idea of detracting others from their faith or converting anyone.
     
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  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Isn't non belief a.belief?
     
  4. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Some have put that spin on it. Not one I subscribe to however. As far as I'm concerned, it's the exact opposite. Of course as a wise man once said, your mileage may vary.;)
     
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  5. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Namaste Jesus on both points ...

    I think looking historically there's a strong nationalist element to 'active proselytising' which brings with it a whole host of problems. The better sort is 'passive proselytising', just doing your thing and if others are drawn then so be it.

    As for non-belief being a belief, I tend to think not. At worst, it's just laziness. Or the question is unimportant. Atheism or agnosticism is, or should be, a reasoned position, not one you arrive at by rejecting everything else.
     
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  6. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    I think non-belief is itself a belief since non-belief comes with its own assumptions (e.g. there is no life after death).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    My logic as well.
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Yup. Bingo.

    Of course here on a faith forum we do discuss our thoughts on religion and spirit.

    In fact I seem to find nowadays that the only people wearing tee-shirts and waving a finger under my nose trying to correct me to their own way of thinking are the 'new atheists'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    Not important to me or those I personally associate with. I like to share my views when invited, of course.

    The city I live in is very multi-cultural, and I must say I do observe people of various faiths wagging their fingers at those with a different outlook, on the streets, and in the media.

    My child has always been the only kid in class not from a religious home, and has been subjected to everything from being poked fun at by classmates, for not knowing arcane details of one religion or other, to full-on conversion attempts by teachers and other parents. We as parents had to step in more than once.

    Then there is some kind of assumption here in Germany of vaguely alluded but undefined "basic Christian values" (apparently protestant, apparently not including the tenets of the sermon on the mount) upon which society is allegedly founded, which citizens are expected to unconditionally share. This gets particularly bizarre when said values clash with constitutional rights: Germany still has a law against blasphemy, which is inconsistently applied, and which the federal constitutional court (highest court here in Germany) refuses to give rulings on, or overturn.

    Glad to hear it's not this weird in some other parts of the world, and it's only the atheists being a nuisance.
     
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    "... in this dispositive of the refugee we have the notions of the secular and the religious that are constructed there, and are implemented into everyday life. But they’re normative of course, right? They’re not neutral. And they’re also inserted into interaction. And this is where it comes to shaping subjectivities, right? Because for example the Syrians at Church, they were constantly being confronted with a secular idea of being an individual – a secular conceptualisation of subjectivity. And they were more or less subtly asked to adapt to it, to internalise it. And I think this is very interesting when you look in terms of power effect. This is how power is inserted into life, into micro-politics, basically. Power is not something abstract that somehow defines discourses and is established in discourses, but it also trickles down into every ..."

    If you say so, lol
     
  12. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    You have a different take? Let's hear it!
     
  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    It sounds to me that people are not too badly oppressed by Christian bullying to convert or conform there in Germany. It is after all one of the most liberal and secular societies on earth. Imo
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Of course there's going to be 'when in Rome do as the Romans do." This is ancient and universal wisdom for immigrants?
     
  15. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    Well, I'm not an immigrant.

    Liberal, maybe. Secular, not so much. Less secular than Turkey, when you look at the laws. No separation of Church and State.

    Healthcare is largely in religious hands over here. That can be weird, when almost every hospital is named after some saint, and there are religious symbols all over the place.
     
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Right. So you don't like being treated in a hospital named after a Christian saint? What if it was named after a Zorastrian or Buddhist saint? This is just a question. Is it still rooted in the issue of power -- of surreptitious Christian bullying to conform? Is it a big issue? It's a discussion and I am being friendly
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Would you object to having a broken leg repaired by a doctor with a cross around her/his neck on a chain? A Buddha on a chain? A moon and star?
     
  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    Not at all. I object to the collusion of religion and state, which led to the situation where religious organisations are preferred healthcare providers.

    If you want to work in healthcare or social institutions here, you have to tread lightly if you are not Christian. People get fired for not sharing the religious views of their state-sponsored religious employers, for example, leaving the (state) Church when employed as a social worker or kindergarten teacher can be a firing offense. Which would be fine by me (if you are going to work for a religious institution, they can reasonably expect you to be part of their religion), except that the Churches have a quasi-monopoly on these job markets, due to their state sponsorship.

    I think that sucks, and it is way beyond the spirit of "when in Rome, do as the Romans".
     
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  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Wow! That's quite wrong for a 21st Century EU secular democracy. You have my sympathy.
     
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    In Britain a nurse isn't allowed to wear a cross -- for health&safety reasons of course -- in case it gets tangled up with stuff she/he's working with.

    I do understand the whole discourse is rooted in power. I believe the definition of racism for instance is moving to 'prejudice accompanied by power'. In effect this means 'the oppressed' are never racist, by definition.

    Perhaps I'm just getting a bit too old and weary for all this V-card stuff, lol ...

    EDIT: of course it's not directed personally
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018

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