Inflame thyself in prayer

[wil]

I will also be short lived, as were the apostles who thought Jesus was just on a vacation with Dad and would be right back.

On one hand you say I believe it all to be physical and then proceed to tell me my belief system is all based on the power of the mind.

But as you are aware I am a firm believer in science and doctors. While they are as fallable as the best philosophers and scientists and religionists of the past a.number of.them just put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

I am still.fairly assured, I have yet to meet,.hear or read anything from anyone who has the answers to this universe, much less the hereafter or the nonphysical even remotely.

 

[Thomas]

Whoa, chill, bro! I can only go on what you tell me.

On one hand you say I believe it all to be physical...

Only because you consistently tell me science will one day provide the answer to everything, and you deny the 'mystical'?

... and then proceed to tell me my belief system is all based on the power of the mind.

I can't speak for your personal beliefs, and I never said that. I did say 'speaking generally' and then quoted James, who also said he was speaking generally.

And, generally, positive thinking seems to crop up a lot in the 19th century 'new thought' denominations. You can follow the arc of development from there to today.

But as you are aware I am a firm believer in science and doctors.

So am I. A religious belief does not preclude a belief in science?

 

[wil]

A religious belief does not preclude a belief in science?

idk which is the horse and which is the cart

 

[Thomas]

idk which is the horse and which is the cart

I think they're two different vehicles. Problems arise when either one starts making pronouncements concerning matters in the sphere of the other.

As Aquinas said, every science proceeds according to its own axioms.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

"Inflame thyself in prayer" is an instruction from a mystical text by Crowley.

Prayer can take many forms and have many different aims.

How do you pray, if you do?

Prayer is a wonderful and powerful tool that shapes our spiritual growth.

I share this passage from Baha'u'llah on Prayer and the Holy Word.

"Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all
attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it. Say: Were all created things to be entirely divested of the veil of worldly vanity and desire, the Hand of God would in this Day clothe them, one and all, with the robe “He doeth whatsoever He willeth in the kingdom of creation,” that thereby the sign of His sovereignty might be manifested in all things. Exalted then be He, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Almighty, the Supreme Protector, the All-Glorious, the Most Powerful.
Intone, O My servant, the verses of God that have been received by thee, as intoned by them who have drawn nigh unto Him, that the sweetness of thy melody may kindle thine own soul, and attract the hearts of all men. Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb. Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul. Thus have the mysteries of the Revelation of God been decreed by virtue of the Will of Him Who is the Source of power and wisdom.
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing
Trust, 1984), sec. 136, pp. 294–95)

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

Prayer is a wonderful and powerful tool that shapes our spiritual growth.

How do you find out if spiritual growth is occuring? And can it have the wrong shape, if there is a tool to shape it?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

How do you find out if spiritual growth is occuring? And can it have the wrong shape, if there is a tool to shape it?

That is a good question, one that we have to ask ourselves daily.

I see the more we strive in prayer to serve humanity, the more prayer is shaping our spiritual growth.

If we are serving our own wants and desires with prayer, then no growth is occurring.

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

I see the more we strive in prayer to serve humanity, the more prayer is shaping our spiritual growth.

If we are serving our own wants and desires with prayer, then no growth is occurring.

On the topic of growth or progress, here's something I'm curious about regarding your faith:

Is there in some kind of standard or orientation aid to assess your spiritual growth? How does your "peer review" work, in the absence of teachers, priests, spiritual directors, gurus, etc? Are there "maps" of spiritual progress an individual can use when on their own?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

On the topic of growth or progress, here's something I'm curious about regarding your faith:

Is there in some kind of standard or orientation aid to assess your spiritual growth? How does your "peer review" work, in the absence of teachers, priests, spiritual directors, gurus, etc? Are there "maps" of spiritual progress an individual can use when on their own?

Another good question, personally I see the standard is given by the Manifestation as they are first to live their Word.

The more we immerse ourselves in the ocean of God's Words, the more material we have to map ourselves against that Word and standard.

We can see and know when we fall short and our challenge is to bring ourselves to account each day, take stock and do better every day thereafter.

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

We can see and know when we fall short and our challenge is to bring ourselves to account each day, take stock and do better every day thereafter.

Agreed. But in my own practice, pure self-assessment has had some pitfalls, such as staying in my comfort zone, or digging myself into a pit, earnestly taking stock each day of my progress in this (non-)aproach... the input of friends and those with greater experience and wisdom is indispensable to me.

How do you approach these challenges?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Agreed. But in my own practice, pure self-assessment has had some pitfalls, such as staying in my comfort zone, or digging myself into a pit, earnestly taking stock each day of my progress in this (non-)aproach... the input of friends and those with greater experience and wisdom is indispensable to me.

How do you approach these challenges?

My wife and I are is a situation where we are the only Baha'i, we are very remote, so we do not get a lot of visitors.

It is indeed a hard path to motivate your own self, and the best approach is a unity of purpose with like minded souls.

The issue we face, is to approach like minded souls, means attending a local church. Each time to see them paying with all heart and soul for the promise to be fulfilled, in the same way each week. How do you have a talk with people that see you are misguided, and even say satan is our guide, when in reality we only see the promise has been fulfilled and our hearts have the same goal?

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

How do you have a talk with people that see you are misguided, and even say satan is our guide, when in reality we only see the promise has been fulfilled and our hearts have the same goal?

I don't, what's the point in doing so? People generally resent having their beliefs questioned by those of other faiths. This forum is a rare exception, and even here, we sometimes get into heated arguments and innuendo.

Is the place where you live beautiful enough to justify having neighbors like that?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I don't, what's the point in doing so? People generally resent having their beliefs questioned by those of other faiths. This forum is a rare exception, and even here, we sometimes get into heated arguments and innuendo.

Is the place where you live beautiful enough to justify having neighbors like that?

What is not to Love about a perfect creation?

It is all about Faith. Baha'u'llah asked us to share the Message with others. We were asked to move and spread the Message to all Nations.

So with much prayer and reflection and a rather amazing story, we settled where we could be part of a community and offer what we see will be the future of all Humanity.

I see our movement and stillness in Faith is all a bounty from God, our free will is to make choices while immersed in that bounty. We miss many opportunities while we learn the use of free will.

Just to give you a smile I willtell a bit of that story and how now I say to people Never say Never.

Before I was a Baha'i and married to my Wife I was in the Australian Army. In mid 1980 I was involved in a big joint military exercise in the Gulf of Carpentaria with the American forces, where Normanton is the small town that houses the local government administration centre.

After the exercise we marched through that town and we had to salute the big brass in the middle of the street, it was stinking hot and as we did eyes right to salute, across the road was a pub (called the purple pub) and a lot of very drunk people were giving us a good old yahoo.

At that very precise time I said under my breath that I was never coming back to this hell hole.

How life is so unpredictable. We went back to Townsville after that exercise, within a few days I met a lady and proposed in 3 days and we married. I left the Army in 1982 and we moved across Australia back to Perth, as far from Normanton as possible. Though Normanton was just an unpleasant memory.

We built a house in Perth and in 1984 my wife read a Baha'i prayer and instantly accepted the Faith. I was not a happy chappy A little while latter after some reading I also accepted the Faith.

It is then we read about travelling and settling for the cause. We sold the house brought a bus, painted one planet one people on the side and set off in 1986 the International year of Peace to see where our heart and prayers would take us.

Well by the end of 86 we were back in Townsville and from there we went up to a Baha'i peace expo being held in Ravenshoe, some 400 km North of Townsville.

At that peace expo we met a Baha'i who turned out was looking for a worker to help him deliver fruit and veggies out west of Far North Queensland. The main town being Normanton.

We moved to Normanton in 1988.

A lot has happened since then, we left in 1997 and returned in 2016. So now I have lived in Normanton twice, so never say never.

Our life journey has been proof to my wife and I that God is always watching over us and that it is our choices that direct our life and the bounty it has to offer.

Regards Tony