"Salvation" and "Enlightenment"

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by CobblersApprentice, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes Received:
    452
    I quoted NOT that part, to me, what is good or not in the world is always linked to human nature, and I don't see human nature changing.

    Isn't Trump saying the opposite of what I am saying, Make America Great AGAIN. I mean... Great at what, be specific!

    No, you now have to live in shame forever.
     
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    90
    I appreciate your asking this question.

    When I used the word person I am referring to the common characteristics of being a person.

    God is the first person. God is the original person.

    Yes We are persons too but we are tiny and hapless. We persons in the material cosmos cannot become God.

    We are in the image of God who is a Person.

    A persona possesses these three qualities:
    strength, fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation

    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    [​IMG]

    Why did Professor Mendeleev name it the periodic table?
    Mendeleev realized that the physical and chemical properties of elements were related to their atomic mass in a 'periodic' way, and arranged them so that groups of elements with similar properties fell into vertical columns in his table. ...

    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    Now the question may be asked:
    Which of the elements that compose the material cosmos contains the qualities of personhood?
    Which of the elements express a latent quality of strength, fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation?

    Before the cosmic manifestation took place ---and the elements were in flux--- there was "Bhagavan"

    "Bhagavan" is the name of God that describes God as one who is full in six opulences,
    who has full strength, full fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation,
    aka, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    227
    Edit to delete the contents.

    If you want to be really tidy, edit to leave only a message to the mods stating you want the post deleted, then flag ("report") it.
     
  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    227
    No Grace? Unforgivable Sin, eh? :cool:
     
  5. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    30
    Well, a human will always be a human with their faults.
    ..but to say that human beings can't change is rather cynical, imo
    No point in having the department of corrections, if they can't be "corrected" :)
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    30
    Yes, I understand that .. but you say that G-d has uncles, father, sons & daughters etc.
    What does that mean? Are you sure that you are not making it up? ;)
     
  7. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    90
    My Dear Habibi,

    It is an honor for me to tell you I am relating what is written in
    the scriptures of the Aryas from beyond the river Sindh.

    Due to the nature of the Lord's own abode, all the residents can
    reciprocate pastimes in five different 'rasas' [tastes, mellows]:
    neutrality,
    servitude,
    fraternal,
    parental,
    matrimony.

    There are 5 ways to have personal exchanges with God ---in His [transcendent eternal] abode.
    This is what is written in the Vedic Literatures of Bharata-varsha.

    God has an original form ---and that form is a autocrat where the meaning of life
    for the denisens is to simply go and get his audience, as much as possible.

    AND, God has His own "Original-original" form ---and that is as a young child Shepard.
    It is with this "Original-original" form that we find that the Lord's companions are
    composed of His own eternal associates and family members ---each exchanges
    personal interactions as:
    neutral grass and trees etc,
    servitude as a pet or herd animal, distant relations,
    fraternal as a village herder and brother-in-law; Uncle etc,
    parental directly or via village elders,
    or in regards matrimonal love along with the hand maidens of the Lord's paramour.
     
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    30
    Well firstly, you haven't explained what it means for G-d to have relatives .. does He have sexual intercourse and was He born?
    Secondly, why should anybody believe some ancient writings, without good reason?
     
    Bhaktajan II likes this.
  9. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    As I have sought to explain many times, I expect nothing.
     
  10. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    THAT'S the question.
     
  11. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    Well, it does seem for some that "He" is an alien entity with Whom we have nothing in common.

    The Buddha did not so much deny the "God's" (or "God") as ignore them. They to, as far as he was concerned, were inevitably subject to impermanence.
     
  12. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    Unfortunately, the "reasons" are often provided by culture and upbringing, then deemed to be "good".

    The text as Word, the Word as text, the person as text, the text as Person. And as one great Buddhist text begins:- "who shall untangle this tangle". Well, the Buddha of course, though the source may well be biased.

    Anyone here read "The Harlequinade" by Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray) ? Available on the net. Good stuff.

    Reading about the poet Stephen Spender, who went off to fight in the Spanish Civil War and had his illusions shattered. Obviously he went off to fight for the "goodies" but alas, such distinctions are often eroded by direct experience.

    He had a "fundamental revelation about human nature" (as the biographer said)....... "This was simply that nearly all human beings have an extremely intermittent grasp on reality. Only a few things, which illustrate their own interests and ideas are real to them; other things, which are in fact equally real, appear to them as abstractions."

    Then, splendidly (!) he recognised ("with horror") he was the same, that this was how his own mind worked. Maybe the beginning of enlightenment! But perhaps Mr Spender should not despair, having "such a great redeemer".
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    30
    Yes .. tribalism can often be an underlying reason why somebody professes a faith.
    Not good enough for me .. not good enough for anybody who seeks truth, I would have thought.

    Again yes .. the consequences of our beliefs have an effect on our worldly lives .. which "tribe" we belong to etc.
    As Jesus, peace be with him, is reported to have said "the truth comes at a price"
     
  14. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    "A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)"

    Lines from Four Quartets, Little Gidding, T S Eliot
     
  15. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    Thinking back, before I was "born again" as a Buddhist ( :) ) I was told that Jesus WAS the "price". We do not pay it ourselves. It all got a bit too complicated for me. Maybe I missed something.
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    30
    You mean that Jesus "paid the price", and so we don't have to..
    That is something to do with what Paul wrote .. and misunderstood by many I have to say

    Best to stick to what Jesus said :)
     
  17. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    Like I said, it all became a bit too complicated......
     
  18. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    Yes, I'm sure, thinking back, that as far as Christianity is concerned, it is more about Who Jesus was, rather than what He said. Obviously the two have some sort of inter-relationship, but nevertheless it would still leave St Paul with something to say.

    My problem, I think, was this fear I have always had of "authority figures" and I found too many of them, and they were all claiming something different. Which makes it difficult. And so I headed for the Pure Land. No regrets.

    Oh, and I know it's a time difference thing, but I find it slightly disturbing that most here come out to play at night.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    227
    But vot beautifull musick vee make!
     
  20. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    84
    I think of a book read long ago by R C Zaehner, "Discordant Concord".
     

Share This Page