Happiness

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I sincerely appreciate everyone's kindness regarding proclamations
    "On the experience of 'the touch of God' also. It may be close to what you are expressing by 'enlightenment'?" The touch of God came to me and since that time I claimed myself to be enlightened, well what am I other than having a deep awareness of life I did not have before.

    Whatever I am in the eyes of others I suppose I am that too.

    Thanks for all the fish,
    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Douglas Adams
     
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  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    And now, because of this discussion I completely understand what you mean.

    Please do not take offence.
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  4. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I can see where by the mention of GURU in previous post may have misconstrued my credibility, however, it was mentioned as a matter fact there is no need for third-party direction because all we could possibly need, we have. without intervention.

    I've seen new Christians who were all aglow, however, I'm not euphoric. My role as a peer support specialist is helping people learn about themselves and basic coping skills, I'm not euphoric, I'm realistic.
     
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  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Our relationship with whatever we hold as sacred is unmediated, and we don't need anyone else, nor can anyone have this relationship for us.

    Our relationship with other human beings, however,... whew. We all need and give help. This makes us human. After all, this is what you do in your peer support role.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  6. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Well Said, Well Said!
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    In other words, a guru-type role.
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Based on what evidence, that outweighs the evidence to the contrary?
     
  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Ok. But we are looking for an alternative word for enlightenment here. One that means 'touched by the divine and awakened from material slumber' -- having a deep awareness of life I did not have before -- rather than 'in possession of all/much superior knowledge and wisdom'?

    Because the word 'enlightenment' carries too much new-age non-duality baggage and is really associated nowadays with dubious charlatans?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  10. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    How about "blessed"? :)

    I thank God, Jehovah, Allah [the Most high] for the spiritual awareness and knowledge that has been endowed upon me.
    It is not something that I can choose to have. It is something that is ordained for a person.
    That is not to say it can happen without reason .. not a random choosing, if you will.

    Everything we think, we intend and we do is all part of the cosmos. Everything is intertwined,
    and has consequences.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  11. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Because the word 'enlightenment' carries too much new-age non-duality baggage and is really associated nowadays with dubious charlatans?

    No offense but could it be enlightenment carries too much new-age non-duality baggage for you personally? Perhaps when I use the word enlightenment stirs something within you and if that is the case then I will refrain from using the term.
     
  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Why should you refrain for my sake? The word enlightenment used in its spiritual sense has particular shades of meaning.

    And yes, particularly when a person has been exposed to a whole lot of hokey spiritual superiority on the subject.
     
  13. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Rather than a single state being as enlightenment I proclaim self as my United States of Being.
     
  14. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I like the word Blessed it makes sense.
     
  15. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Blessed however, it is interesting how little I know and understand and yet I am blessed
     
  16. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Perhaps of relevance my dad was a southern baptist preacher, my great grandfather was a preacher, and at an early I fully intended to become a prison chaplain, I went into human services instead. I started Bible college after receiving my AAS degree in chemical dependency counseling, however, after two years I transferred credits to a secular college and received my BA degree in community & human services.

    Although I did not complete bible college I learned about biblical matters, God and faith that would have taken a lifetime to learn outside bible college. So it wasn't a waste of time.
     
  17. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Thank you.

    The evidence is tautologically subjective: Each person can only experience subjective experience on their own.

    The counterexamples of intersubjective religious experience, such as the Marian appearances at Fatima (edited to add): or instances of shaktipat, are only available to me second hand, so they carry less weight for me, in terms of subjective immediacy.

    Of course, it could be different for you!

    Thanks again for bringing this down to earth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Whew!
     
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  19. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I think we're getting somewhere ... or more probably I am ...

    I am not saying an individual needs a third-party mediator to attain blessedness.

    What I am saying is the cultural spiritual traditions are the means of transmission for the seeker, to enable them to frame and contextualise their seeking and their experiences. This seems to me an inescapable fact. No-one has introduced a new lexicon, a new paradigm, a new way ... we all talk in term so received wisdom that's enshrined in the traditions and commentaries of antiquity.

    No doubt there are the charlatans in every age. There are the well-meaning but hopelessly inept. And 'the spiritual path' is open to commercial abuse as much as any, and there are those ready to profit by the desire of others.

    I do think what needs to be distinguished is the distinction between those who put themselves on the path of a spiritual 'quest', a seeking for a deeper and more profound engagement and understanding, those who want to go beyond themselves, and those who by natural disposition and dare I say grace find themselves blessed where they are.

    The first thing to say is everyone is blessed, everyone carries the light. There are those who go through life with never a glimpse. Those who have glimpses, and those who step ever deeper into the light ...

    My first point would then be that this particular path, of 'spiritual discernment' is not the aim and goal of the traditions, of revelation, of enlightenment. There are saints in all traditions who go through life in humility and good faith and, no doubt, reap the rewards of whatever paradigm they see themselves in. Blessed are the poor, after all. Christ, for example, never seemed much enamoured of the enlightened man, but He did stand in awe, as it were, of the expression of simple faith, whether it's the widow outside the temple, or the centurion who placed his faith in God much the same way as he placed his faith and obedience in his commanding officer. Examine both and no doubt we would find their beliefs riddled with errors, but the heart was in the right place, and that's what mattered to Him.

    My insistence on a guru is for those who wish to go beyond themselves, because 'that way madness lies' as a very real danger. We all need a sense-check and a sense-checker. We can choose to press on without, but the risks in such an enterprise, in any and every field of human endeavour, are there to see.

    I would deny no-one happiness, but I would also say happiness is not the goal nor reward of enlightenment ...

    Anyway, some random thoughts.
     
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  20. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Deeper than I imagined. My relationship to God is personal, similar but different than my wife. When I pray I tell God I love him not as a deity but in the closeness of our relationship. You are so much more aware than I am
     

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