Quaker women told me

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant ... faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.
    (Corinthians 13:4/13)

    Humbleness, sincerity, harmlesness, forgiveness, uprightness, devotion to the spiritual master, purity, steadiness, self-harmony ... But even dearer to me are those who have faith and love
    (Gita 13:7 & 12:20)

    ... whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.
    (John 4:14)

    ... those who hear my words of truth, (and who) come to the waters of everlasting life
    (Gita 12:20)

    I could go on all day? :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    I'd quite enjoy a comparative Gospel-Gita thread. If you started one, I'd be happy to participate, though I don't know much about the Gita.
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    What! That's inexcusable, lol.

    I suggest you try and get the Juan Mascaro translation into English. It is poetic, like the KJV Bible. There is also the Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada translation. You're in for a treat. Its a short book. The Gita is a wonderful uplifting scripture :)

    Best wishes
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Well, it is (all one).

    Almighty God is One!
    You might want to split Him up into parts .. but HEY! .. that is what causes division :(
     
  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Namaste Jesus would be the best person to do that, imo?
     
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  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    One of the best things about our volumes of scripture like the bible,.gita or Quran

    Is the ability to find the quote that proves our point...dang near any point..and the links that be be used for those who want to find connection or opposition.

    We can easily chose to argue all day or find ways of agreement.

    The texts can even argue amongst themselves.
     
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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Or perhaps God really does speak/explain 'himself' to us through holy scripture?

    He that hath ear, let him hear, etc?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Written by dozens of men, edited and transcribed and compiled by even more in multiple languages from various traditions...by George that is the only explanation, where do I sign!!

    I gotta leave this site now, we don't allow proselytizing and I've got good news for everyone!
     
  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Well, the Bhagavad Gita is written in Sanskrit, and there are several direct translations.
    We have five natural senses, and all our wonderful scientific instruments and telescopes and microscopes are really just extensions of the five natural senses that we have. Does a cat have senses that we don't? What does a cat see through those strange eyes? Does it see a mouse as a mass of energy light fibres?

    Does a fish experience a different world/reality of nature than say an armadillo? How can even the smartest ever flea know more than a tiny little bit about the dog that it is on?

    Perhaps God is capable of communicating with man through scripture as well as through nature?
     
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  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    No
    [​IMG]
    No
    Yes
    Idk
    Perhaps, zero certainty, but perhaps.
     
  11. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Question do people want to be like God? To worship/serve God? Or be God? Is God everything you want?
     
  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Sure, that's the rods and cones, etc. And that's all we can know. But it's what the brain does with it. What does a cat really see? Colours are brighter on psychedelics. A schitzophrenic can see and have a conversation with a person no-one else can see.

    It must be quite comforting to know we live in a world limited to what tbe five human senses can observe. Where reason solves everything. I don't mean anyone here, unless the cap fits.

    The scientifuc instruments are extensions of the human senses. There reality begins and ends? Nothing more to discuss?

    Whatever ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  13. Mrs Malaprop

    Mrs Malaprop Member

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    I wasn't talking about God, I was pointing to the shallowness of universalism amd perennialism.
    In my view constructive interfaith dialogue behind with an acknowledgement of differences, and not with the papering over of cracks, or with woolly and wishful thinking.
     
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  14. Mrs Malaprop

    Mrs Malaprop Member

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    My translation of Gita 12:20 reads: "Those who honour this immortal law, as I have described above, keeping their faith, intent on me as highest, are most dear to me!"

    I had a look through Gita Chapter 12 and can see no references to "waters of everlasting life", which sound more like a Biblical reference.
    My translation of Gita 13:7 sounds similar to yours, but I don't see how this makes the Gita and New Testament somehow equivalent. For a start, the "hero" of the Gita (Arjuna) is a warrior having qualms about killing his enemies in battle, hardly a Christ-like figure.

    I think if you study the Vedas, Upanishads and Gita, you will quickly realise they are describing something quite different to the Old and New Testaments. Claiming otherwise is just shallow perennialism in my view. It's also patronising and disrespectful of the individual traditions involved.
     
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  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Ok. I need to have a look and respond later. I used the Juan Masacaro translation, and a quick comparison with the Bhaktivedenta translation indeed shows no mention of water in 12:20.

    I am not saying Hjnduism and Christianity are compatable religions. I am saying that all scriptures describle the same God in different ways, often only slightly different.
     
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Mrs Malaprop

    Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada translation of this:

    Humbleness, sincerity, harmlesness, forgiveness, uprightness, devotion to the spiritual master, purity, steadiness, self-harmony (13:7)

    BP (marks it 13:8):

    Humility, pridelessness, nonviolence, tolerance, simplicity, approaching a bona fide spiritual master, cleanliness, steadiness and self-control ...

    Of this:

    ... But even dearer to me are those who have faith and love
    (... from 12:20)

    BP:

    ...engages himself with faith, making Me the supreme goal, is very, very dear to Me.

    More later. I am mystified at the 'water' quote. I may have quoted the wrong passage. I'll need to check when I get home, ok? It is so different to the BP translation that there must be something wrong somewhere. Sorry ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  17. Mrs Malaprop

    Mrs Malaprop Member

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    I completely disagree, and Brahman is nothing like the Abrahamic God. I suspect you are viewing Hinduism through a Christian lens, which is bound to be misleading.
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Mrs Malaprop

    Ok, the Masacaro translation of 12:20 indeed reads:

    "But even dearer to me are those who have faith and love, and those who have me as their end supreme: those who hear my words of truth and who come to the waters of everlasting life."

    BP:

    Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making me the supreme goal, are very very dear to me.

    So you are quite correct. Either Masacaro has taken the liberty of inserting words that are not there or BP has omitted them. I suspect the former. It is an inexcusable thing to do and so I stand corrected. Thanks for that, and now have to throw my Masacaro translation away, to avoid others also being mislead.

    I have of course also provided a couple of other parallels between the scriptures, which seem to be correct?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    No I view Christ as the eventual culmination of all previous avatars. A bit like the Bahai who regard their messenger as wrapping up all that were before him. Same One God.
     
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  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Mrs Malaprop

    The Yogananda Paramahansa translation of 12:20:

    XII:20 But those who adoringly pursue this undying religion (dharma) as heretofore declared, saturated with devotion, supremely engrossed in Me—such devotees are extremely dear to Me.
    http://yogananda.com.au/gita/gita1200.html#xii

    Mention of 'saturation' there, but 'waters of everlasting life' is a bit too much of a stretch, I have to agree.
     

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