Who created God?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by muhammad_isa, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Ah. So the terms Father, Son, Mother don't really mean exactly that, what they say? They are allegorical images used to try explain spiritual, non-temporal happenings to ordinary natural human beings? Mysteries actually?
     
  2. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Easy. You no longer have to "know", it's just there, immediate, raw, pure fire. Don't even have to engage the mind.

    I seem to always like movies that don't do good at the box office. There was a Denzel Washington movie called "The Book of Eli". Had a lot of violence in it but I never pay attention to that, I'm looking for the deeper message. This one's got a sucker punch in it, in that throughout the whole movie, he has been walking by pure faith and not sight.
     
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  3. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Train still moving ever closer to the end of the line. No one has all the answers, we're all just leaves in the wind now. Got to get ready for my morning walk. My sister's usually not a happy camper if I'm late. :(
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    ..so you claim.

    At the very beginning of his reign, he deemed it proper to promulgate by law the Church's belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation, and to threaten all heretics with the appropriate penalties, whereas he subsequently declared that he intended to deprive all disturbers of orthodoxy of the opportunity for such offense by due process of law.

    There was also war going on between the Vandals in North Africa and the Goths in Italy. [ both Arians ]
    He was VERY much concerned with "making Rome great again" .. who does that sound like? o_O
     
  5. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No mystery ... would you rather the Bible used the term "God the Mother" instead? Some people would.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you.

    In Hebrew theology there are hierarchical 'gradations' of the soul, designated by different terms – nefesh, ruah, neshamah. In the Kabbalah we have hayah and yedidah. There are corresponding terms in Latin and Greek in Christian speculative theology, and no doubt in Islam, too.

    The lowest level, nefesh (Gk: psyche, Lt: animus) are, according to Scripture, not immortal, but dies with the death of the body.

    The idea of 'being born again' in baptism is the activation of the higher aspects of the soul, but the immanent presence of the Holy Spirit. Then, and only then, do we start seriously talking about immortality.

    Life, however, in its basic sense, goes on. It's just that that life as such is neither yours nor mine, d'you see? Life goes on, even though I do not, my forbears have gone, future generations have yet to be, but life endures ...

    ... It all gets rather deep, metaphysical, speculative ...

    The Catechism is addressing Catholics, so certain matters are given. One is 'pastoral necessity' in how the doctrine is presented.
     
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Deliberately misunderstanding the point, as usual. Cheers ...
    Not really. It just flicks back to the beginning and starts again chugging ponderously along the same old track, as if the whole journey had never happened
     
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I am not ignoring the power of the Holy Spirit .. I do understand what you are referring to.
    However, we can all go through life claiming that "we are the ones", each group having different understandings.
    There is no need to quote the Bible, if "all you need is love" :)
     
  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No, I'm not .. the Father IS a mystery, if you don't have proper knowledge of Him.
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Got evidence otherwise?

    OK. A general statement... So now we have to look at what heresy Origen was accused of.

    Over to you ...
     
  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Yes .. well.
    As you are confused about my "Arian beliefs" about the nature of the soul, I was confused about yours.
    I thought that you were a mainstream Catholic that believes in an eternal hell.
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I do. As I said above:
    "Eternal hell exists as a potentiality and a possibility by virtue of our finitude, not by virtue of God's perfection. It's there for our sake, not His."

    I like to think, like Meister Eckhart, I am beyond such things as life and death; heaven and hell ... but I doubt it! :D
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No, we don't .. because we can't.
    Same old.

    The fact remains that Justinian was passionate about defeating the Arians, and condemned them both by serious penalty for 'heretics' [ non-Niceans], and waging war.
    He condemned Origen's writings to be burnt .. who was highly respected in his era.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Makes no sense to me .. eternal hell is there for OUR sakes?
    Either it is real or it is not.
    You seem to be suggesting that it is a case of "empty threats".
    I don't see it like that at all .. but then, I'm "an Arian".

    An Arian that does not believe what is said about them by the Roman Christians who despised them.
    [ as many still do ]
     
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    @Thomas ..and, of course, you still haven't told us how many different "spiritual substances" actually exist..
    ..or what that even means :)

    i.e. what is a soul "created" from?
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK.

    How can you say that if you insist we can't know?
     
  17. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    You mean, that the said wars never happened during the reign of Justinian? :D
    I've already said that that is something that would be difficult to hide.

    I don't see ANY point at all in scrapping over what might or might not be propaganda.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK. I didn't say hell is not real, by the way. I'm with Julian of Norwich on that one.

    Nope. God does not make empty threats.

    OK. So what do you base your Arianism on?
     
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the evidence is Scriptural ...
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    wiki:
    "The Gothic War ... had its roots in the ambition of the East Roman Emperor Justinian I to recover the provinces of the former Western Roman Empire..."
    It was about territory.

    But that's with the Goths. What was Justinian's 'war' with Origen?
     

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