Romans 5:1 Δικαιωθεντες ουν εκ πιστεως - The Impact of Such a Small Verse of Scripture

[Thomas]

Hi PricelessPearl, beginning to appreciate your thinking.

I see the fall as a ... descent ... limited to the point that it has identified itself as the thing that it is an expression of, instead of identifying as the consciousness itself. It is consciousness trapped by the senses. It thinks it is an individual separate thing.

I'm always wary of the tendency to diminish the value of the physical world, but I'm beginning to get a sense of your thinking.

The serpent in the garden I tend to view as a tendency, or potentiality, the serpent cannot talk to us, unless we listen. He says: "... your eyes shall be opened". We allow ourselves to become beguiled by the sense of self – in the Garden, Eve "saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold" – this seeing was of the surface, the superficial view of the fruit, 'fair' and 'delightful', whereas before she had 'seen' in essence, now the gaze has shifted to the separateness of it, its 'otherness', the outward and material that is distinct from other outward materialities.

The result, they perceive themselves as naked, and they lose sight of God, and they hide.

In that sense the tendency of the world is to draw the spirit towards its own disorder, but the world itself is not intrinsically bad, for all that. The Buddhists regard the human as a special state, almost a unique state among the many states of being, and one that should not be considered lightly, nor surrendered.

As I see it, with a foot in two worlds, as it were, we are fixed in neither, and that is our greatest strength, and our greatest peril, because it speaks of a freedom that no other mode of being enjoys, other than God, who is Beyond-Being.

+++

With regard to Christ, I view that as the 'Corpus Mysticum' the one bread, one body analogy of Paul's. Exegesis has come round to asserting Christ as the head, and we the members, but that's not strictly accurate, Christ is the whole body, and we are of it ... 'in him, we live and move and have our being', Paul said, citing the Cretan poet.

 

[PricelessPearl]

I'm always wary of the tendency to diminish the value of the physical world, but I'm beginning to get a sense of your thinking.

Hi Thomas, it’s not my intent to minimize the physical world (for the Earth is the Lord’s and the fullness there of). The soul is fourfold (spiritual, mental, ethical or moral, and physical.

I see the serpent as libido, which is directly related to consciousness. The issue is the tendency to look at the material world and think that it is separate from the spiritual or heavenly (I understand that matter is Spirit- it is the word made flesh. It’s God.) It is the divine on a lower level.

So eating the fruit is to believe what our senses and reasoning are telling us based on a very limited perception. Such as God is afar in heaven while we are below on the earth. But really God is everything and everywhere- in above and through all, and he wills and moves within us. For an example.

It’s similar to Christ saying to Peter, do you love me and telling him that as a youth we dress ourselves but when old someone dresses us, speaking to the manner of death he would have. Then Christ says, follow me. And Peter turning around sees the disciple Jesus loves.

It’s God saying if you eat from this tree you shall surely die. The tree being the tree of the pair of opposites (good and evil, young and old) the physical world with its limitless expressions.

But Peter turns around (he repents- has a radical change of mental perspective) and follows Christ (within himself, his head, his Lord, his true essence). Then he sees the beloved disciple, which is him. We are Peter, the beloved and Jesus.

 

[PricelessPearl]

Hi Thomas, it’s not my intent to minimize the physical world (for the Earth is the Lord’s and the fullness there of). The soul is fourfold (spiritual, mental, ethical or moral, and physical.

I see the serpent as libido, which is directly related to consciousness. The issue is the tendency to look at the material world and think that it is separate from the spiritual or heavenly (I understand that matter is Spirit- it is the word made flesh. It’s God.) It is the divine on a lower level.

So eating the fruit is to believe what our senses and reasoning are telling us based on a very limited perception. Such as God is afar in heaven while we are below on the earth. But really God is everything and everywhere- in above and through all, and he wills and moves within us. For an example.

It’s similar to Christ saying to Peter, do you love me and telling him that as a youth we dress ourselves but when old someone dresses us, speaking to the manner of death he would have. Then Christ says, follow me. And Peter turning around sees the disciple Jesus loves.

It’s God saying if you eat from this tree you shall surely die. The tree being the tree of the pair of opposites (good and evil, young and old) the physical world with its limitless expressions.

But Peter turns around (he repents- has a radical change of mental perspective) and follows Christ (within himself, his head, his Lord, his true essence). Then he sees the beloved disciple, which is him. We are Peter, the beloved and Jesus.

I will add to the last part, that I am not saying that Peter is the disciple that Jesus loves, as I have said before, I believe that all the disciples are attributes of mind. Peter is stability (unredeemed is instability), he knows that That Which Is within us is the Christ and so all other disciples or attributes of our mind are positioned from this foundation stone. In the story I quoted Jesus asks Peter to feed his sheep; sheep meaning all the other aspects or attributes of mind.

It is said that John is the disciple Jesus loves but I don’t necessarily agree. (I am going to use “you” here for clarification.) You are all the disciples and you are Jesus Christ. For me, the last supper, as it’s known, is a picture or blueprint of a mind probably disciplined. You are in the house (the house is our mind, where we live) in the “upper room” with Christ and all the disciples seated at the table with him. And as such, the loved disciple (you) is on his chest.

My take anyway. Enough from me.

 

[davidsheep88]

Wow this is deepthinking, your love for G-d is fulfilling. Good sir you are an old wise scholar.

 

[ScholarlySeeker]

Wow this is deepthinking, your love for G-d is fulfilling. Good sir you are an old wise scholar.

Easy on that "old" pal!