Muslims are Christian???

RJM Corbet said:
..one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
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Does "John" have to say "he tells the truth" to convince us? :)

You know what I think about the style and accuracy of John.
 
RJM Corbet said:
you also may believe.
John 19: 28-35

It's a question of whom to believe, is it not?
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The testimony of early Church leaders was that John the Apostle was the author of the Gospel of John. Irenaeus (c. A.D. 130–200), an early church father wrote: John, the disciple of the Lord, who leaned on his breast, also published the Gospel while living at Ephesus. But Irenaeus was erroneous. Conventional wisdom today says it was written decades after Jesus's death and not by John.

The two main reasons the Gospel of John was written was to evangelize both Gentiles and Jews. The second reason was to strengthen the faith of Christians in his local community and Christians everywhere.

It appears to be promotional marketing of sorts...we had the letters of Paul and the gospels were written to fill the gaps for the believers. And each in turn writing specifically for another audience to correct and or expound upon the others.

M_isa....who do Muslims believe Jesus is to G!d and why would he not let him die like the rest of us?
 
wil said:
Interesting...so are you indicating that Muslims see themselves as Christian? (Believing Christ is G!d/Allah?

This counters my understanding of what i often hear. "We are all Muslim, most just don't know it yet."

I thought a main belief of Islam is that they honor Jesus specifically not as Allah, but as a prophet, a Jewish prophet along with the rest...and Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and supercedes the rest (as far as changes to laws and understandings go)
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no. jews and muslims are monotheists but muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of god
 
wil said:
M_isa....who do Muslims believe Jesus is to G!d and why would he not let him die like the rest of us?
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I don't believe that G-d wouldn't let Jesus die..

I think that it is only after Jesus' ascension that a movement evolved called "Christianity" which revolves around the mystery surrounding his apparent death.

What is to be is to be.
I do not think that the success of Christianity is a coincidence, and nor do I think that the success of Islam is a coincidence.
The adherents of both faiths have their blessings, and G-d will be our judge on judgement day.
He knows what is in our hearts, and why we say what we say.
 
wil said:
Interesting...so are you indicating that Muslims see themselves as Christian? (Believing Christ is G!d/Allah?

This counters my understanding of what i often hear. "We are all Muslim, most just don't know it yet."

I thought a main belief of Islam is that they honor Jesus specifically not as Allah, but as a prophet, a Jewish prophet along with the rest...and Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and supercedes the rest (as far as changes to laws and understandings go)
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A Christian is a follower of Christ, the 'Annointed One' of God. Doctrine does not, and never will, in all eternity, define a Christian. The heart and soul, and most importantly the life of a person that has embraced Jesus as the Christ, defines their Faith in Jesus who was annointed by God, Christ.

Thus a Baha'i also is a Christian, but we are also in that respect a Muslim, a Jew, a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist and a follower of Krishna. (Hindu is not defined by Krishna).

Always happy to discuss, regards Tony
 
muhammad_isa said:
I don't believe that G-d wouldn't let Jesus die..

I think that it is only after Jesus' ascension that a movement evolved called "Christianity" which revolves around the mystery surrounding his apparent death.
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The flesh amounts to nothing, it is the natural law of God that all flesh passes away and the elements disperse to regenerate again in other forms.

It is the Holy Spirit that is life, it is the light of God and Jesus has a body born of that light of the Holy Spirit, which is eternal.

You can not kill Jesus, as Jesus was the Lamp that was lighted by a 'Christ' (Annointed) body.

Humans are not lighted by that Holy spirit, unless and until we become born again into that Spirit via the Spirit of Faith. That is why we can be dead, but alive in the flesh, but Jesus is never dead, the Spirit he was, is the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega.

We are given a soul/spirit at conception and need faith in God to live.

Happy to discuss, Regards Tony
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
Thus a Baha'i also is a Christian, but we are also in that respect a Muslim, a Jew, a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist and a follower of Krishna. (Hindu is not defined by Krishna).
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Interesting. Do Baha'is seek refuge with the Triple Jewel, the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? Do they practice the Noble Eightfold Path, as the Buddha taught it, and as the Dharma embodies it, and the Sangha cultivates it, to this very day? Is the Baha'i understanding, or View, of the human condition congruent with the four Noble Truths, is it Right View? That's what Buddhists tend to think makes one a Buddhist, as far as I know.

And, asking half seriously, is a Baha'i also an Atheist, a law-abiding, good-works-doing Atheist, because the lack of religious doctrine is irrelevant, while the demeanor is the decisive factor?
 
Cino said:
Interesting. Do Baha'is seek refuge with the Triple Jewel, the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? Do they practice the Noble Eightfold Path, as the Buddha taught it, and as the Dharma embodies it, and the Sangha cultivates it, to this very day? Is the Baha'i understanding, or View, of the human condition congruent with the four Noble Truths, is it Right View? That's what Buddhists tend to think makes one a Buddhist, as far as I know.

And, asking half seriously, is a Baha'i also an Atheist, a law-abiding, good-works-doing Atheist, because the lack of religious doctrine is irrelevant, while the demeanor is the decisive factor?
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I see a Baha'i seeks refuge in naught but God.

God gave us all the Messengers and the teachings suited to the Age. In all those Messages, every one of them God tells how those teachings erode over time, and always promises to renew them when the teachings have become eroded.

So in the Baha'i context, we renew the Covenant with all those Messengers, when we again embrace the fundamental Truths they expounded by embracing God's given Messenger in the age we live.

All those that embrace the light of God's teachings and practice then are bathed in that light, no matter what Faith, or no faith.

Regards Tony
 
muhammad_isa said:
In the context of souls, you can't kill anybody.

On the other hand, all men can be killed .. as in ending somebody's life in this world.
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Death for a human soul is to be Godless.

It is like a rock in the world compared to Jesus.

We can be a rock in this life and when we pass on, or we can be bathed in the Light of Christ now and when we pass on and be alive.

They are relative states of being.

Regards Tony
 
RabbiO said:
Of course we could request a second opinion..... if your insurance will cover it.
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Not sure their opinion is impartial, though. After all, their bet is on my early death, in line with their business model.
 
muhammad_isa said:
There are many sects in Islam with varying interpretation of scripture, as in Christianity.
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Hello again.
In connection with the above, please may I ask, what section of Islam do you belong to? I only know of Amadija, Shia and Sunni Muslims.

I have met a couple of Jews who converted to Islam.
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What country did those Jews live in, please?
 
badger said:
Hello again.
In connection with the above, please may I ask, what section of Islam do you belong to? I only know of Amadija, Shia and Sunni Muslims..
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Out of the three, it must be "sunni" .. the majority .. but I don't consider myself part of a specific group, really.
I am a convert.

badger said:
What country did those Jews live in, please?
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The UK .. specifically, the Birmingham area.
 
badger said:
What country did those Jews live in, please?
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You seem surprised that there are Jews who have converted to Islam. I’ve known Jews who converted to Islam. I’ve known Muslims who have converted to Judaism. I’ve known Jews who have become Christians and Christians who have become Jews. Name a religion and there are probably Jews who have abandoned Judaism and joined it and there are probably members of that religion who have become Jews.
 
RabbiO said:
Name a religion and there are probably Jews who have abandoned Judaism and joined it and there are probably members of that religion who have become Jews.
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However unlike many other religions, Judaism does not actively evangelize for converts? Judaism isn't particularly out there to convert anyone? Jews just quietly get on with their own religion?

Is that a correct assessment?
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Out of the three, it must be "sunni" .. the majority .. but I don't consider myself part of a specific group, really.
I am a convert.

The UK .. specifically, the Birmingham area.
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Thanks for the info. I live in Kent now.
 
RabbiO said:
You seem surprised that there are Jews who have converted to Islam. I’ve known Jews who converted to Islam. I’ve known Muslims who have converted to Judaism. I’ve known Jews who have become Christians and Christians who have become Jews. Name a religion and there are probably Jews who have abandoned Judaism and joined it and there are probably members of that religion who have become Jews.
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Hello.....no surprise here, just asking what country those particular converts lived in, us all.
 
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