Is the bible a history book?

[wil]

 

[Thomas]

That's an hour plus!

Upshot?

 

[Geo]

The Bible is a history book, of another timeline from the original.
"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death.
This side where we live and the other side where we will continue to live. Eternity doesn't begin with death.
We are in eternity now."
Norman Vincent Peale
See Revelation 12:4
Stars in the Bible represent both people and angels alike. From Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Thomas]

The Bible is a history book, of another timeline from the original.

I don't know what that means: 'another timeline'?

This side where we live and the other side where we will continue to live.

Ah, we really have to define what we mean by 'we' in thw above statement, as there is a huge margin of error.

"We are in eternity now."

Yes, the finite is part of the infinite, were it not, the infinite would not be infinite ... but the finite does not enjoy the same condition as the infinite, in its being dependent, contingent and limited.

Norman Vincent Peale

Ah, the God of the material consumerist ... I recently listened to an excoriating critique of the Power of Positive Thinking and how it is allioed to and a product of white entitlement.

Revelation 12:4

Ahh .... there are as many interpretations of the Book of Revelations as there are stars in the sky ...

Stars in the Bible represent both people and angels alike. From Genesis to Revelation.

Yep, the Ancient languages of the region and beyond were rich in poetic imagery, much of the Biblical imagery is there in other cultural texts.

 

[Geo]

"I don't know what that means: 'another timeline'?"
--------------
? You've got a short memory don't you Thomas.

Adam lived in a timeless situation.
Different from us, pre Fall.

We've been in an alternate timeline since. With a different past, according to science.

 

[Thomas]

You've got a short memory don't you Thomas.

And you a short fuse, it seems ...

 

[RJM]

I don't know what that means: 'another timeline'?"
--------------
? You've got a short memory don't you Thomas

What do you mean by another timeline. Are you here to talk about it, or not? It's no use getting annoyed by questions and flipping out Bible passages from Revelations and Daniel and Ezekiel which have been interpreted in very many ways by very many people for very many centuries, imo

 

[RJM]

Others are taking the trouble to engage with you about your belief.

Do you mean a life after death, heaven and hell -- an afterlife? How is that different from many other religions? You bring in near death experiences, but how are these evidence of Matrixism? How does your particular take on Matrixism differ from what many Christians believe anyway?

 

[Geo]

Well Corbet, I've attended to it but I'll address it again.
LIFE... is more and other than this evolved, organic spectrum, and manifestation.

Time and space as we experience it, are dependant upon this organic form.
Something which we seem to abide in, but which Physicists since Einstein, have been telling us doesn't really exist.
The greater REALITY AND TRUTH involves the timeless, and eternity...
Which is what we've been hearing over and over in the many NDE accounts, for several decades now. <~

Many Christians do not understand what Revelation 12:4 is telling us regarding the history of humanity, it's true and actual origins and with other related verses, such as Daniel 12:3, (...those who are wise will shine like the lights in the firmament, and those who bring many to righteousness, as the stars forever and ever."),
and Rev. 22:9. (fellow servants)

Adam was different before the fall, and this organic form we find ourselves in, is the lessor reality, the "simulation", and Matrix of the Wachowski's illustration.
Why is this present world the way it is?
For one? We share the same "survival instinct" as every other organic creature on the planet, along with Ego, based upon it.

But the greater reality and truth involves the angelic, and the spiritual.
The devil, formerly Lucifer the "covering cherub"... is responsible for this present world.
Which is why Jesus referred to the devil as their father to some, and they his offspring.

 

[Geo]

And you a short fuse, it seems ...

Circuit Breaker.

 

[RJM]

LIFE... is more and other than this evolved, organic spectrum, and manifestation.

We have agreed on that

Time and space as we experience it, are dependant upon this organic form.
Something which we seem to abide in

Correct, imo

but which Physicists since Einstein, have been telling us doesn't really exist.

Incorrect, imo

The greater REALITY AND TRUTH involves the timeless, and eternity...

I agree. But 'science' says nothing about this. Scientists get annoyed by so-called woo. Science is firmly involved with the temporal and spacial organic/natural reality.

Which is what we've been hearing over and over in the many NDE accounts, for several decades now. <~

And which Christianity and many other religions have been talking about for centuries.

Many Christians do not understand what Revelation 12:4 is telling us regarding the history of humanity, it's true and actual origins and with other related verses, such as Daniel 12:3, (...those who are wise will shine like the lights in the firmament, and those who bring many to righteousness, as the stars forever and ever."),
and Rev. 22:9. (fellow servants)

This seems to be the nub. Can you expand please. Do you mean more than that the wise and good will enter paradise, while lesser souls go elsewhere?

Adam was different before the fall, and this organic form we find ourselves in, is the lessor reality, the "simulation", and Matrix of the Wachowski's illustration.
Why is this present world the way it is?
For one? We share the same "survival instinct" as every other organic creature on the planet, along with Ego, based upon it.
But the greater reality and truth involves the angelic, and the spiritual.

This too is essentially common Christian belief.

devil, formerly Lucifer the "covering cherub"... is responsible for this present world.

In the sense of Genesis, responsible for the fall of Man -- again common Christian belief.

Which is why Jesus referred to the devil as their father to some, and they his offspring.

He did, referring to certain individuals. Satan as the lord of this world.

It seems none of this Matrixism seems to be essentially different from what many Christians and Bible scholars believe anyway. Nor, as @Thomas has been explaining (I think), does it essentially differ widely from what many other faiths and religions believe, although expressed in different terms with different fine details, etc.

So with respect this 'Matrixism' isn't saying anything unique or new -- the thoughts have been around for millennia?

 

[Thomas]

LIFE... is more and other than this evolved, organic spectrum, and manifestation.

OK.

Time and space as we experience it, are dependant upon this organic form.

And vice versa.

Something which we seem to abide in, but which Physicists since Einstein, have been telling us doesn't really exist.

Well this is simply wrong, both scientifically and according to the Religious Traditions.

This existence does exist, but it is dependent upon – from an Abrahamic POV – God.
Jesus said to Catherine of Siena, "I am He Who Is, you are she who is not."
He dies not mean Catherine does not exist, but rather that she is not self-subsisting, as He, and God alone, is.

This 'non existent' idea is a common error, but is not supported, either in Abrahamic, Brahminic or Buddhists texts. It;s a popular meme, but it's a shallow reading of the texts.

The greater REALITY AND TRUTH involves the timeless, and eternity...

And, as I have pointed out, the finite is part of the Infinite.

Which is what we've been hearing over and over in the many NDE accounts, for several decades now.

I place little store by NDEs. I have both 'appearances' and post-death 'messages' in my own family, but I do not play them into my understanding of metaphysics.

Many Christians

do not understand what Revelation 12:4 is telling us regarding the history of humanity, it's true and actual origins and with other related verses, such as Daniel 12:3, (...those who are wise will shine like the lights in the firmament, and those who bring many to righteousness, as the stars forever and ever."),
and Rev. 22:9. (fellow servants)

Such pro[hecies can be interpreted many and diverse ways. No one knows for sure.

Adam was different before the fall, and this organic form we find ourselves in, is the lessor reality, the "simulation", and Matrix of the Wachowski's illustration.

I've dealt with this elsewhere.

 

[RJM]

And, as I have pointed out, the finite is part of the Infinite.

The infinite surrounds and contains and permeates, 'weaves' the finite, in my way of understanding?

 

[Cino]

Time and space as we experience it, are dependant upon this organic form.
Something which we seem to abide in, but which Physicists since Einstein, have been telling us doesn't really exist.

Well, here's two reasons why I disagree with those physicists you mention.

1. The Pauli Exclusion Principle. Loosely speaking, two particles with the same quantum state can't be in the same place at the same time. If you want a universe with more than one particle, you need time and space.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle

The second, about the macroscopic "direction" of time. Thermodynamics depends on this property, the fire of the stars, of our sun, which sustains life on this planet, would not burn without this property. Our bodies would not metabolize the food we eat without thermodynamics. We would not be here for this conversation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

 

[Geo]

Well, I never said that Matrixism differs very much from The Truth, presented to us in the Bible.
However, state in the Christian arena that our true origins, and actual situation involves the angelic, apart from time, and you may find plenty of protests from Christians.

So, I presented Julian Barbour's work at the beginning of my discussion, and, at a few dollars online it's worth the read.
But if your not interested that's fine with me also.
Meanwhile Einstein stated, "There is no room for both the field and matter. For the field is the only reality."
As well, "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live."

I have no doubt you can quote many who will disagree. Good luck with that if it keeps you entertained.

 

[Cino]

Meanwhile Einstein stated, "There is no room for both the field and matter. For the field is the only reality."
As well, "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live."

In what context did he say that, do you know?

What is the field he's referring to, do you know?

I don't want to convince you of my understanding, but I really do want to understand yours. You seem to hide it behind sound bites and the words of other people, however.

It is safe to spell out your beliefs here. You will be taken more seriously, not less, when you do so. Candor is valued here.

We only get annoyed when preached down at.

 

[RJM]

However, state in the Christian arena that our true origins, and actual situation involves the angelic, apart from time, and you may find plenty of protests from Christians.

Angry protests from thousands of different sects of fundamentalist literalist and mostly conservative American 'we Christians' club members ... means little to me. Interesting to engage with you and again thank you for sharing your thoughts here @Geo

 

[wil]

It seems to me quoting politicians, physicists and the bible out of context is a popular pastime of zealots and all pretty much equally productive.

You can quote me on that...in any context...lol.

 

[Geo]

It seems to me quoting politicians, physicists and the bible out of context is a popular pastime of zealots and all pretty much equally productive.

You can quote me on that...in any context...lol.