What is God's Law?

RJM

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I'm not starting a new thread .. bye bye.
Suggestion for new thread title:

Authenticity of the writings of Paul and John accepted by 2.5 billion Christians vs the writings of Muhammad (pbuh) acepted by 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide?
 
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Cino

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t appears Jesus said nothing directly, but in Ephesians 6:1 Paul writes:
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

I was thinking Matthew 15:3-9, where Jesus addresses some grey area regarding the law about honoring parents vs the law of dedicating sacrifices (or something to that effect).

Again I can’t find direct comments by Jesus, except as a negative reaction to the observance of the letter as opposed to the spirit of the law. But It is discussed by Paul in Romans 10

I think this is actually very close to the verse you quoted in the OP: Matthew 5:20 (the entire argument seems to span Matthew 5:17-20). In this context, he goes on to address several individual commandments from Matthew 5:21 to the end of the chapter.

To me, this reads like he was engaging in a wider discussion going on between several Jewish groups at the time, about how to best keep the commandments. I read him to have taught that keeping the commandments was important ("... not abolish ...") going into detail about just what he meant by being more righteous than the teacher of the law and the Pharisees: in the case of murder, not just abstaining from murder, but on top of that, abstaining from calling someone "Raca" or "fool", and so on.

I understand his reference to righteousness as a fairly specific concept closely related to the commandments, which is found in the Prophets, where it seems to have been more or less synonymous with "moral", in the Psalms, in post-babylonian exile literature, such as the Book of Job, and in modern Judaism (but I defer to @RabbiO to explain the correct understanding of the term within Judaism).

This is just my personal understanding of these text passages and concepts. DISCLAIMER: I'm neither Jewish nor Christian and do not presume to explain these things to adherents of either religion.
 
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muhammad_isa

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Authenticity of the writings of Paul and John accepted by 2.5 billion Christians vs the writings of Muhammad (pbuh) acepted by 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide?

You're sad.. :(

I honestly don't care how many people accept something.. or what they accept.
If I am the only person on the planet who think that a certain belief is right/wrong, I honestly don't care.
In fact, eventually, the world will be destroyed. I don't believe it is everlasting.
..not this physical world. Beliefs come, and beliefs go. Faith can go up and down.

To keep your faith in "the end times" is particularly difficult.
..so how many people believe in God, or believe a particular creed does not prove anything whatsoever!
 

Cino

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Suggestion for new thread title:

Authenticity of the writings of Paul and John accepted by 2.5 billion Christians vs the writings of Muhammad (pbuh) acepted by 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide?

..so how many people believe in God, or believe a particular creed does not prove anything whatsoever!

I for one agree that it doesn't prove anything how many people believe in God. I don't, and you are both wrong. But this is completely besides the point, isn't it?

This place is not about proving who is right or wrong. This is Interfaith Dialogue. We try to understand the other person, we don't have to agree with everything they say, and vice-versa. This is not about reaching consensus regarding the one true belief system, but about reaching a mode where we can talk about our diverse and often contradicting beliefs without getting bogged down by the question of who is right or wrong.

I think this basic premise is clear to all participants. But admittedly, it is easy to lose sight of this in the heat of an argument. So please, let's take a step back and review the reasons to be a person posting in an Interfaith Dialogue forum.

Kthxsbye
 

RJM

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Sorry. Bad wording. Let's change it to:

Authenticity of source of the writings of Paul and John vs the writings of Muhammad (pbuh) -- both accepted by a lot of people worldwide

Which was what I meant to say
My bad
 
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RJM

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Paul says Christ knocked him off his horse, Muhammad (pbuh) says the angel Gabriel hugged him ... that's the discussion -- for another thread, imo
 

Thomas

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Since the 19th century, scholars have almost unanimously accepted that the Johannine discourses are less likely to be historical ...
Actually, that view has shifted in the late 20th.

During the late 20th century, "the Jesus Seminar" concluded ...
The methodology of the Jesus Seminar came in for considerable critiques of its methodology and findings.
 

Thomas

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Another aspect of John reviewed in recent scholarship is the fact that John was considered late because of a 'High Christology', and yet the other exponent of a 'High Christology' was Paul, who's writings are the earliest.
 
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wil

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a figment of your imagination
Budweiser is the number one selling beer.

What the majority buys....is what they have been sold. Does anyone believe Bud is the best beer?

What many or most think or do is more related to mob dynamics than reality or facts eh?
 

Thomas

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I was enlightened by a homily of Luke 7.

Verse 36 opens an account of Jesus invited to the house of a man named Simon, 'one of the Pharisees'. While seated, an anonymous woman, 'a sinner' – apparently not of Simon's household – came into the house, washed Jesus' feet and anointed Him with an ointment she had brought. Simon says to himself (we are privy to his internal dialogue here) If Jesus is a prophet, he would know who and what manner of woman this' (Simon knows, apparently).

Jesus then says to Simon: See this woman? I entered your house, you offered me no water to wash my feet. She washed my feet with her tears and her hair. You offered no kiss, yet she kissed my feet. You offered me no anointing, she anointed my feet...
This is Jesus issuing something of a b*ll*cking to his host, who has shown himself to be no host at all, as he is under obligation, especially as a Pharisee, to fulfil the required social etiquette. Jesus is quite short when it comes to hypocrisy.

In verse 48 Jesus says to her: "Thy sins are forgiven thee."
That is an out-and-out blasphemy – and 'they that sat at meat with him' (v49) clearly saw it, saying: "Who is this that forgiveth sins also?" (v49)
It's actions like these that say something about Jesus.

I like to think it's a true story. I like to wonder why the host did not wash and anoint his guest? Did he invite Jesus there to take the p*ss? To show Him off? To somehow test Him? Show Him up in front of an audience?

Only God can forgive sin. A sin is an offence against God, He is the offended party. Yet Jesus calls Simon out for his hypocrisy, then has the audacity to forgive the woman her sin, in front of witnesses!
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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What is God's law? Is it the eternal Divine principle, or is it a set of laws written in men's books, requiring all sorts of clothing and diet and hand-washing and prayer times and other ritual demands, depending on the particular religion and scripture

I see that Gods law is applicable to the age it is given, it is renewed by God.

It becomes relevant to our chosen faith and view of God.

I see in this age this is the Law,


Regards Tony
 
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RJM

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I believe spiritual law may often seem to be the opposite of natural law. The Sermon on the Mount is a good example, but the message runs through all that Christ said and did, imo

When Jesus saw the crowds, he went up the mountain; and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. Then he began to speak, and taught them, saying:


Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

(Matthew 5:1-12)

Read full passage
 
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Ella S.

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I believe spiritual law may often seem to be the opposite of natural law. The Sermon on the Mount is a good example, but the message runs through all that Christ said and did, imo

When Jesus saw the crowds, he went up the mountain; and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. Then he began to speak, and taught them, saying:


Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7“Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. 1

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
(Matthew 5:1-12)
Read full passage

If I were to ascribe any law to God, which may be an impossible task given the limits of my mortal perception and understanding, I would think it would closely resemble the Sermon on the Mount. I think it's, perhaps, the most important part of the entire Christian Bible and where Jesus really defines Christian philosophy.

I find the reliance on Paul and James in a lot of mainstream Christianity seems to frequently supersede the teachings of Jesus given in this passage, which disheartens me. I don't reject their insights wholesale, but I wish more priority was given to the words ascribed to Jesus than the speculations ascribed to the apostles.
 

Thomas

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Alongside that, and connected to it, I'd put Matthew 25:

"Come, ye blessed of my Father ... For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me... Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me." (v34-36, 40)
 

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