Scriptural infallibility

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Thomas, Nov 2, 2021.

  1. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    437
    Irenaeus first established the doctrine of four gospels and no more, with the synoptic gospels interpreted in the light of John. Irenaeus' opponents, however, claimed to have received secret teachings from Jesus via other apostles which were not publicly known. Gnosticism is predicated on the existence of such hidden knowledge, but brief references to private teachings of Jesus have also survived in the canonic Scripture as did warning by the Christ that there would be false prophets or false teachers. Irenaeus' opponents also claimed that the wellsprings of divine inspiration were not dried up, which is the doctrine of continuing revelation.
    - wiki Heresy_in_Christianity -

    This was the beginning of so-called orthodoxy. The Gospel of John was being emphasised.

    The Gospel of Thomas, it is often claimed, has some Gnostic elements but lacks the full Gnostic cosmology. However, even the description of these elements as "gnostic" is based mainly upon the presupposition that the text as a whole is a "gnostic" gospel, and this idea itself is based upon little other than the fact that it was found along with gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi. The scene in John in which "doubting Thomas" ascertains that the resurrected Jesus is physical refutes the Gnostic idea that Jesus returned to spirit form after death. The written gospel draws on an earlier oral tradition associated with Thomas. Some scholars argue that the Gospel of John was meant to oppose the beliefs of that community
    - wiki Diversity_in_early_Christian_theology -

    ..so these "orthodox" Christians were bullies, who asserted their version, while actively oppressing
    any other views. I find that highly suspicious, and while I am not accusing anybody of insincerity per se,
    I think that people were being manipulated, and history of the early Christians was
    eventually suppressed by the victors.[ Roman Nicean authorities ]
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Hi, all – just to add some balance and background to the wiki citation ...

    "... the synoptic gospels interpreted in the light of John."
    I don't think Irenaeus ever said such. It's not evident in his writings — in fact, with some thousand Scripture references, more than a third relate to the Pauline epistles, and his early 'catechism', "The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching" the references to John are not so numerous as to suggest it.

    Irenaeus (130-202) was a student of Polycarp (69-155), who was a student of the Apostle John. I
    renaeus himself believed John wrote a Gospel to refute emerging heresies (Nicolaitans and Cerinthians) and in his Contra Haereses, he uses Scripture as a whole, but argues John in particular in support of the doctrine of Incarnation and Resurrection.

    Irenaeus is considered to have laid the foundation of Salvation Theology, and that is heavily dependent on Paul.

    Nor can it be said the Gospel of John was 'emphasised' in this period of church history.

    Irenaeus' opponents, however, claimed to have received secret teachings from Jesus via other apostles which were not publicly known.
    Here Irenaeus argued 'Apostolic succession', against the supposed (as he saw it) 'secret teachings' of Jesus.

    OK, but it's a weak argument, resting on assumption.

    One could, for the sake of demonstration, argue that Uthman ibn Affan and his followers 'were bullies, who asserted their version, while actively oppressing any other views' ... D'you see how it's a straw-man argument?
     
  3. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    437
    Most scholars conclude that the apostle John, son of Zebedee, wrote none of the Johannine works, including the Gospel of John..
    -wiki Authorship_of_the_Johannine_works -

    ..see above..
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    437
    Many non-canonical gospels were also written, all later than the four canonical gospels, and like them advocating the particular theological views of their various authors
    ...
    the four gospels were written in Greek.
    ...
    Despite the traditional ascriptions, all four are anonymous and most scholars agree that none were written by eyewitnesses

    - wiki Gospel -
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,033
    Likes Received:
    2,058
    ABSOLUTELY!

    But we aint no small block in Christendom... It is our evangelicals all over the world spreading a warped view of the good news for the past hundred years...adding to the plethora of US embarrassment globally and locally. (But they did some good things too....lol)
     

Share This Page