What are we?

muhammad_isa

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Here's a thought, and I hope it appeals to adherents of most if not any views about God's existence, powers, and ethical purity:

We human beings can live good lives and work to build a world where goodness (by any pragmatic definition) may have the upper hand.

Indeed..
"What is the reward of goodness except goodness?"
"If you take one step towards God, He will take two towards you. If you come to Him walking, He will come to you running."
 

Ella S.

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An impotent God!
We incarnate?
How many power centers - God, Demiurge, or more? (Repeating Muhammad_Isa)
Very nice of this God.
True.
Heard? Yes; Know about: No, unfortunately.So, Gnostic Christians are atheists.If there is no God, then whence the 'divine light'?
An impotent God!
We incarnate?
How many power centers - God, Demiurge, or more? (Repeating Muhammad_Isa)
Very nice of this God.
True.
Heard? Yes; Know about: No, unfortunately.So, Gnostic Christians are atheists.If there is no God, then whence the 'divine light'?

muhammad_isa's question about gods was a trick question, making the division between polytheism and monotheism. I'm a dualist.
 

Grandad

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The darkness at the bottom of a mine is total darkness.

Indeed it is (I was a collier for around eight years); and, in an active mine, it's a 'living' darkness; one that caresses the skin as it moves; bearing the sounds, and the smells, of the mine itself. An amazing experience.
 

muhammad_isa

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muhammad_isa's question about gods was a trick question, making the division between polytheism and monotheism. I'm a dualist.

In religion, dualism means the belief in two supreme opposed powers or gods, or sets of divine or demonic beings, that caused the world to exist.

OK .. I'm not trying to trick anybody. I only asked. :)

My idea of monotheism is that there is only One true God .. only One true power.
One might see suffering as cruel [ I know I often do ] .. but what is pain?
It exists as a warning to us that something is wrong .. no?

Furthermore, we shouldn't confuse the oppression from other humans with God.
 

powessy

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The following got me thinking. What, according to our diverse world-views, are we, really?

Just eight years ago I had no belief in any religion, and through the multitudes of times I was able to get out of body, I just thought I was a person experiencing myself only. Thousands and thousands of dreams in my lifetime, and you know the funny thing there was never anyone in them except for a hand full of those experiences.

Eight years ago I finally got powessy to figure himself out and to find time inside of him. Once this started my dreams and meditations have had millions and millions of people and other life forms in them as he started to find time. Minds do not teach us like we learn things here they teach us with objects that we can use to figure things out with. The more objects you become or figure out the more minds you can figure out. I have stood on foreign worlds, looked at the remains of a world that formed an asteroid field within that solar system.

I have seen so many different forms of life that are alien to who we are here. I stood on the outer edge of a fire surrounded by neanderthals as the were eating, I have looked down into the frozen tundra to see a dead woolly mammoth. Minds will try to teach you anything that doesn't make sense to you to try and rip you apart. I find minds to act a lot like animals in their ways to teach each other nothing here. Basically the bigger your peacock feathers the more time you can figure things out.

I would like to say something on the order of minds, I also refer to this as the law of minds. To start from the top down you would first have the "one and only" he is only one mind and he is himself only nothing else can become him and he cannot become you but can figure anything out. Next you would have celestial objects, her-selves, they would represent universes. The universes are filled also with smaller celestial bodies, galaxies which are also her-selves and within them would be world soul objects which are her-selves also. Within worlds you have all living and none living matter that forms the world soul object.

At this level of worlds you also have a "himself only" he is everything inside of himself that cannot become something again, he is evolution. We are inside of herself and we also have a mind that is not us to find time inside of, I think this would be the most confusing thing to understand, this is because we are not themselves we are ourselves.

To understand how our mind works is sort of a puzzle to figure out. Everything has to become something inside of something else to become themselves again, this is from the top down. Recently I had a disagreement with someone regarding the mind and time, this was mostly on my part because I did not explain how the minds work and what it means to find time. Our mind that we find time inside of to become something again is not easy to figure out. First in life you will be taught inside of yourself this happens at a young age. The next thing is you start to live and die over the next X years until you become nothing here.

During your lifetime not knowing anything about anything here you would have to find all your time and put it back together again. If you would look into your mind you would see five minds looking back at you, and within these five minds you would see five minds within them, and five more minds within those minds this happens five times only. The secret of the golden flower image here: https://www.gohd.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/secret-flower5.jpg is the best way to show how this might look even when it is missing three more times inside of itself.

Since you are taught inside of yourself early on this allows your time to be lost all around you and not inside of yourself if it did you would become yourself and they would not allow this to happen. To find your time is a good thing, it means your time can start to be put together to teach your mind who you are. The mind I am referring to here is not your brain or your soul the mind is not you, but it is what stands between us from becoming something again after this lifetime.


This part will explain death to those that want to know what happens after this life time. At an early age a mind will attach to you and will teach you how to become something here. You will become me inside of yourself this is said like this " I need every me"cell" inside of me"body" to become me"yourself here, flesh and bone". The me forms and over a life time the me will become you after this life time, that is the fairy tail version. What actually happens is the mind teaches you inside of yourself so you can never find time again and your me remains a 3 or 4 year old.

As you get into your teens and start to ask questions about things himself will attach to you and you will find the worst thoughts ever as he tries to rip you apart to keep me from becoming you. This will go on until your life ends or until himself can teach me to never figure you out. So when you die minds will teach you inside of you.

When I find minds that are, "You inside of you" this is transition to becoming me(little you), people that just died, you either become me(little you) or you become nothing at all. Once you are "me inside of me" The transition is over and now you can find time to become nothing here.

The next move is to teach you into the matrix of minds I call this myself. Myself is the matrix it is hundreds of minds that will allow you inside of them to become something there after you find time first. Little minds (New and old me"us") will move out to find time inside of more children teaching them how to become themselves, and as they teach you, they will find time until they/we cannot become something there again.

The matrix was designed to find worlds after the universe becomes something again, it was never intended to be used in the manner it is being used in.

This is just a short understanding of the things that I am learning all these thoughts could be unpacked into pages and pages of experiences and communications between me and minds trying to figure themselves out.

I do not know if this qualifies as a religion or not. What are we, "we are souls experiencing something inside of something".

Powessy
 

RJM

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@powessy mentions the Secret of the Golden Flower.
https://www.gohd.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/secret-flower5.jpg
I find his thoughts are similar to the Taoist ‘Middle Way’

https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19939/#post-353507
"Spirits of evil and good enter into my soul and body walk with me down the path of limbo, with good on my right and evil on my left walk with me into the light".

The Taoist immortality yoga of the Golden Flower is described in detailed in this book:
Taoist Yoga Alchemy And Immortality by Lu Kuan Yu

This is another book that might interest you:
The Secret of the Golden Flower Translated and explained by Richard Wilhelm with a European Commentary by C G. Jung

Are you familiar with the I Ching?
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/14888/page-2
I believe the I Ching (rather than the Tao Te Ching) is the true sourcebook for Taoism:
https://www.labirintoermetico.com/09IChing/Wilhelm_R_The_I_Ching_or_Book_of_Changes_(abriged).pdf

upload_2021-12-31_9-30-45.png


More Tao stuff here:
https://www.hermetica.info/OriginalDao.html

The Other Original Dao

The Path, before Kongzi and Laozi Paved It
© Bradford Hatcher 2012, Version 12.8

Valuable I Ching links to different versions and translations:
https://www.hermetica.info/K-YiLink.htm

Check out this brilliant website for lots more:
http://www.hermetica.info/

And a lot of valuable Tao information and discussion here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/11355/

Tao Te Ching comparative versions by Boston University pdf
https://www.bu.edu/religion/files/pdf/Tao_Teh_Ching_Translations.pdf
 
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Aupmanyav

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What, according to our diverse world-views, are we, really?
:D :D Many views (as appropriate to Hinduism).
Dvaita: We are completely different from the Supreme and we are also different from each other. (Madhvacharya)
Dvaita-Advata: We are different and not-different from the Supreme. (Nimbarkacharya)
Achintya Bheda-Abheda (Hare-Krishna): How does it matter if we are same or different from the Supreme. (Chaitanya Mahaprabhu)
Vishishta-Advaita: We are same but conditionally different from the Supreme. (Ramanujacharya)
Advaita: We are really the same as the Supreme but we are in ignorance. (Sankaracharya)
Aupmanyav: We All (Humans, animals, vegetation and non-living substances) are the same as 'what exists', which is not a Supreme. 'What exists' is 'physical energy'. (Aupmanyavacharya)
* Acharya, as you know is for a great teacher. :D
 

Munir

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I publicly seek forgiveness from God for inappropriate behaviour.
Munir Faisal
 

powessy

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@powessy mentions the Secret of the Golden Flower.
https://www.gohd.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/secret-flower5.jpg
I find his thoughts are similar to the Taoist ‘Middle Way’

https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19939/#post-353507


The Taoist immortality yoga of the Golden Flower is described in detailed in this book:
Taoist Yoga Alchemy And Immortality by Lu Kuan Yu

This is another book that might interest you:
The Secret of the Golden Flower Translated and explained by Richard Wilhelm with a European Commentary by C G. Jung

Are you familiar with the I Ching?
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/14888/page-2


Thanks for all of the reference material. I do walk the middle path or "middle Way".

I would like to share my first experience that I had with a mind. When this all started I had to descend down through all of the timelines to find where all of this started, to descend to the lowest point. I journeyed down into second dimensional time, and then moved back up into what is referred to as the inner pool and outer pool. In second dimensional time, objects appeared to me to look like wire framed objects like in auto cad. First a yourself would appear then minds would attach to it and then start to move along axis's of that object and then would disappear.

Exploring the cavernous inner and outer pools, there were many interesting things that formed all over the place. Powessy mostly stayed away from those there, but on one occasion he moved up on this being that had what looked like a very large bag hanging from their shoulder. Transfixed on the bag he moved into where she was standing just a foot or two from the face of the mind. I noticed this woman had feathers all over her and wings but not an angel. The mind was more like a large worm then a serpent, it opened it's mouth and within it were five minds and within those five minds there were five more minds. Powessy turned from the woman and looked to the right as information was being taught to us about how she was able to become something here for so long.

The mind she had by itself was not large enough to allow her here all of the time. This mind was most likely only one of five of her minds that she would have on her own world. Minds can become nothing inside of themselves like an out of body experience, they will move through the timelines to recover your time over and over again to insure you can keep becoming yourself again. This is a symbiotic relationship that can allow you to become yourself forever inside of nothing here.

People would travel from world to world through what I call the old ways. Worlds, yourselves, "worlds, also have to have a yourself" will allow people to pass through them to move about the galaxies from world to world, this comes at a cost to the traveler though, the cost is time. The more time one has the further one can travel to figure things out. This woman though had been here for many times, over and over again past her time to leave. The mind she held with her was her mind and the mind of earth was fifty times the size of this mind she carried. This earth mind allowed this woman to become herself over and over again but she had to become something that could not become something here, hence the feathers.

To me what was really interesting, is that in order to become anything here you have to become something that cannot become something here or something will try to become you. When he said this I was shown these little minds coming out of the outer pool moving across the ground. The other thing that is interesting is the Egyptians gods, Sumerian gods and even Hindu gods are described as people/entities that cannot become something here again. In some of the Sumerian cave carvings they show the angels teaching themselves here how to find time and figure things out. We were later shown the pinecone looking things they used to teach themselves with, these items differed from the engravings because the ones we were shown had seals all over them they said "these were the good ones".

Powessy
 
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Aupmanyav

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I publicly seek forgiveness from God for inappropriate behaviour.
Munir Faisal
Welcome to the forum, Munir. I am sure that you have sought forgiveness from those with whom your behavior was inappropriate. Allah can excuse you only after they excuse you. :gentle laugh:
 

RJM

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Thanks for all of the reference material. I do walk the middle path or "middle Way".

... First a yourself would appear then minds would attach to it and then start to move along axis's of that object and then would disappear.
Thanks
Does ‘spiritual’ vision and understanding only happen to ‘normal’ people?

upload_2022-1-2_9-51-19.png

https://www.gohd.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/secret-flower5.jpg

This image you posted does not in Taoist yoga depict a single individual influenced by outside minds, but a fully realized individual able to emanate many different ‘selves’ all at the same time, able to appear and act in different places and different times – and able to reveal themselves or to remain invisible to men

The boddhisattva who has achieved this state has become immortal in human terms, able to materialize a body or to dematerialize it.
People would travel from world to world through what I call the old ways. Worlds, yourselves, "worlds, also have to have a yourself" will allow people to pass through them to move about the galaxies from world to world, this comes at a cost to the traveler though, the cost is time.
Great beings able to walk between worlds. What we may call gods and angels
 

Thomas

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Hi Ella —
Through the gnosis given to us by Christ, we may find salvation after our bodies release us.
This recalls to mind the writings of Jean Borella, a big influencer of mine.

Speaking of the Resurrection appearances of Christ, he writes:
"What happens is that the resurrected Body ... is still the instrument of presence in the world of bodies, but ... it is no longer of the essence of this presence to be passive and involuntary. The soul which inhabits this instrument is entirely master of it and makes use of it at will... Christ is no longer seen, He causes Himself to be seen... "
This, it seems to me, is implicit in Mary Magdalene's encounter at the empty tomb (John 20), and again, this time explicitly, by the two disciples on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24 – "But their eyes were held, that they should not know him." (v16).

"He is no longer subject to the conditions of this corporeal world. His bodily presentification becomes, then, a simple prolongation of its spiritual reality, entirely dependent upon this reality (whereas in the state of fallen nature, it is the person's spiritual reality which extrinsically dependent upon its bodily presence) ... "
(Jean Borella, 'Christian and Anti-Christian Gnosis')
 

seattlegal

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Starting a new thread so as not to completely derail the original one.

The following got me thinking. What, according to our diverse world-views, are we, really?



So the Gnostic view as I understand it, we really are souls of divine origin, "wearing" a body which is not really part of us?

Theravada Buddhists, as I understand their teachings, have the doctrine of the "five khandhas" (body, feelings, perceptions, cognitions, awareness) which interact in a process to form a human being, but there is no "core being" that is apart form this temporal process. In any case, there is a belief in rebirth, which implies some sort of continuity of this process across bodies. @seattlegal how about Vajrayana, I expect they have more intricate teachings?
I'm more of eclectic solitary practicioner, so I can't really speak about Vajrayana. @Vajradhara would be the better one to ask about this.

As for Self, from what I understand, any view that we would have regarding it would be a hindrance, including believing in no-Self. It's untraceable.
See the Water Snake Simile where it mentions Indra's search for Atman.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html#fnt-11
 

Aupmanyav

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"Acinteyyas".
But the Hindu view is that contemplating on that reduces suffering, because it removes doubt and opens the doors for truth.
"Know thyself' is the first stepping stone to understanding. :)
 
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