The Laws of Moses......... perfect for their time.

Discussion in 'History and Mythology' started by badger, May 10, 2022.

  1. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I propose that the 613 laws of Moses (from Genesis, Numbers, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and others) were a perfect piece of legislation for the production of a fast growing, surviving, strong, healthy and cohesive people.

    All were important, and I think that Jesus wanted their return, especially those that protected and supported everybody regardless of abilities or disabilities.

    The other day I noticed a Bye Law (Canterbury City Council, England) which requires that where anybody is working on a roof, that suitable railings, walls etc are put up all around that workspace. Brilliant! Straight out of Deuteronomy....
    Deuteronomy: {22:8} When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

    ....... every law. Of course, some might seem to be strange, so please do trawl through 613 and pick any for discussion. :)
     
  2. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy {24:5} When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: [but] he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

    I wish that had been UK law in 1972! :D
     
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  3. Ella S.

    Ella S. Utilitarian Logician

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    There's definitely more thought put into the mishvot than I think most people outside of Judaism give them credit for. There are quite a few ideas that, to this day, still seem stunningly progressive in comparison to our current state of affairs.

    Especially sabbath laws. People were supposed to have a day of rest. It's too often that I see people being called in last minute to work weekend shifts, or else working second or third jobs on the weekends just to make ends meet. It's a recipe for karoshi.
     
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  4. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I do love reading these laws.

    Ex Ex. 16:29................. stay at home on the Sabbath! :)
    However, we know that folks didn't........ or they'd never have been able to travel hundreds of miles to feasts etc. But obviously they couldn't be made to leave home if they didn't want to. Love it! :)
     
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  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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  6. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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  7. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

    Wow!..... no charity this, but a law....a command. Nobody should go hungry, the able should support the disabled.
    How did we forget these laws?
     
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  8. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus {11:9} These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. {11:10} And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:

    This law banned the consumption of shellfish and carrion (bottom feeding) unscaled fish like cat fish. Wisdom is as old as the hills, it seems. :)

    If anyone doubts the dangers of eating shellfish, please enter 'shellfish poison paralysis' in to your search engine and read all about this horrific sickness. I have collected oysters from the foreshore all my life but have learned how to cook them to (only) reduce such risks. If you eat an oyster in a restaurant it should have been kept alive under ultra violent light for (I think) three days to kill bacteria.

    This is not advice for you, but if we caught (scaled) herring in drift nets we often ate these straight out of the sea, but if we caught unscaled skate and bottom feeders then....never! Carrion eating fish slowly collect metals and poisons in their systems and only cooking above boiling point would do for us.

    The Israelites knew how to stay fit, healthy, strong and secure.
     
  9. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus {25:4} But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

    This reminds me of 'the rotation of crops' guidance to farmers and letting the land lie fallow regularly. It took us a long time to figure this out and to regain the knowledge.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    This is exactly how to translate it to today.

    You can take the words from yesterday and apply them to the issues of this day.

    I see it as a living book.

    Defund the police.
     
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  11. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Yes!
    I absolutely do love to read these laws, often chuckle, sometimes laughing out loud.
    Whilst I accept that some have become less necessary due to discoveries, the majority are just wonderful.


    I laughed when I saw this sentence, it was as if it was somehow catapulted out of another thread or conversation.....
    Please, you will need to explain this point to me. :)
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    If the bible said "defund police" or "raining cats and dogs" the non literal euphemisms would be taken as literal today.

    If you watch a movie from the 30s.making love meant kissing.

    Word definitions change over decades...doesnt need centuries.

    Agreeing with you those laws were for that time...and we actually dont know what they all meant to them 3000 years ago.
     
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  13. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I think that most of those laws make very good sense.......today.
    The OP asks, 'please pick any for discussion', with this exactly in mind.

    But I do accept that language changes over time. I sometimes use the analogy of a sports reporter writing how a rugby player hammered his way down the pitch, tanking through the opposing forwards and then barging his way on to the try line. In 2000 years a reader might believe that chieftain tanks and amphibious craft were used in the game of rugby. :)
     
  14. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

    Brilliant! Laws like this, and others such as Numbers 15:38 which required fringes to be put on the corners of clothing, and all the other laws which identified the people and drew them in to cohesion.

    But there were other reasons for these laws, and here is one of those:-

    If an intruder should attempt to gain access to a community, for whatever reason, how long do you think it would be before he was discovered and an alarm raised? Furthermore, it would take a lot of time for any such attempts to be prepared for; these appearances cannot be achieved overnight.

    The dress code of a Spurs Football team member is so important that scores of thousands of supporters.... wear it!

    QED
     
  15. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    There is something about neat haircuts, and trimmed beards... just my personal preference. :)

    Deut. 7:3, against intermarriage with non-Jews: I'm happy my sweetheart didn't follow that one. And although our child was raised without allegiance to any religion, and was taught about many faith traditions, she is proud of her Jewish ancestors, and is exploring the traditions and trying to apply them to her life.

    On the other hand, endogamy has certain disadvantages, hereditary medical conditions for example, not to speak of convoluted family trees ;)

    So, all in all, I can see how this commandment may have had its justification in its historical context, but it is one of the harder ones to interpret in the context of modernity. IMO, as always, and with deep respect for my in-laws' tenacity over the generations, without which I would never have had the great fortune of having found my spouse.
     
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  16. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    My wife would agree about the neat haircuts and beards, but she has never moaned about my self clipped hair and shaggy beard. Of course, had I tried to sneak in amongst a Jewish community back then......failure.

    Ah yes...... Closed marriage within the twelve tribes, not needed today but absolutely essential back then. Back then any outsider could bring death to the whole of the community in time. Too risky.

    But today such barriers could be seen as racism and bigotry.
     
  17. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    The story of Ruth tells otherwise.

    Um. I think it is too multilayered a situation for these simplistic terms to apply. For example, would you call the Catholic reluctance about interfaith marriage "racist"? Would you call American First Nations concern for the survival of their culture "bigoted"?
     
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  18. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Exceptions and rules. :)
    Please remind me, was Ruth alive before of after the Exodus?

    No, I would call interfaith exclusions a kind of bigotry today, and I don't know anything about American First Nations, had never heard of them till now. .
     
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Native Americans, Indigenous Americans.
     
  20. badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    I asked a question to see if you would answer..... :)
    Ruth was of Israelite stock..... not an outsider.
    And she was obeying the laws of Moses in gleaning from the fields.
    Boaz was of Israelite stock and a land-holder.

    No. Racism is about race, I think.
    But for any group (today) to attempt exclusion where I live is prejudice or bigotry.
    Where I live any exclusion, victimisation or harassment caused by race, creed, any kind of class, religion, gender, marital status, sexuality, nationality, culture, colour is in contravention of our Equality Act 2010

    Concern for their survival.......? No.. a very fine endeavour.
    Stopping a couple from partnership, marriage etc because of any bloodline interruption......... yes..... people should have the absolute right to pick their partners and where barriers are put up then families just get busted....... very sad.
     

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