What is the Baha'i message in simple words?

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Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
Yes it makes no sense why not.

Regards Tony
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Well, I don't want to get involved: but a good way to start may be not to dismiss other religions as trivial and outdated? At least be careful not to appear to be doing so?
 
It's difficult to reconcile one global religion, with acceptance of individual religions.

Most of these religions have lasted for thousands of years. There is only the word of Baha'u'llah to say they will all fade out in the next couple of centuries as everyone turns to the Baha'i religion.

The Baha'i themselves believe it. Others believe Baha'u'llah perhaps got it wrong in taking upon himself the mantle of the second coming of the Christ. There's no point in getting annoyed with people for not immediately accepting the Baha'i message. It's quite natural they should not -- barring 'signs and wonders' or other extraordinary evidence to support Baha'u'llah's extraordinary claim?
 
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RJM said:
Most of these religions have lasted for thousands of years. There is only the word of Baha'u'llah to say they will all fade out in the next couple of centuries as everyone turns to the Baha'i religion.

The Baha'i themselves believe it.
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I don't believe all religions will fade out, nor do I believe everyone will turn to the Baha'i Faith. Show me where Baha'u'llah says that. I believe numbers will be much larger.
 
Which is certainly not to dismiss the Baha'u'lla and the value and effect of somebody like him: it's about now turning him into the very second coming of the Christ, and constructing around him a religion that essentially claims to overpass all that came before.

I certainly do not dispute the goodness of Baha'u'llah or reject the message of human unity in a new global world -- but I totally reject the elevation of the Baha'i Faith to the 'master religion' and all that implies.

I totally accept the sincerity of the Baha'i community. I hope they accept also my sincerity in that it doesn't work for me to accept Baha'u'llah not just as a teacher and example, but as the second coming of the Christ ...
 
RJM said:
Well, I don't want to get involved: but a good way to start may be not to dismiss other religions as trivial and outdated? At least be careful not to appear to be doing so?
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I do not know any Baha'i that sees any God given Faith as Trivial. One has to consider that It is God that renews Faith. In fact, as a Baha'i, we embrace all God given Faiths in the same light as our own.

So how is that trivial?

Can one offer that a Christian dismissed the Old Testament as trivial and outdated?

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Most of these religions have lasted for thousands of years. There is only the word of Baha'u'llah to say they will all fade out in the next couple of centuries as everyone turns to the Baha'i religion.
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I see Baha'u'llah has confirmed all past God given Faiths, so rather have them fade out, all of them have come part of our childhood education program.

Baha'u'llah has revived them, all of them and Baha'i come from all the Faiths and no faith.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
It's quite natural they should not -- barring 'signs and wonders' or other extraordinary evidence to support Baha'u'llah's extraordinary claim?
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All that evidence was given. What the world now faces is that it did not implement that advice.

So if you like, pick an issue that humanity now faces and let's explore what Baha'u'llah offered as the remedy.

More and more each day, one can see in the news, someone offering the path to peace with a concept that Baha'u'llah has already given.

That is the way God's Messages work, they become our greatest aspirations. When the Message is given, the potential was not yet seen, but as decades pass, the wisdom becomes apparent. Only a few blessed souls, free of worldly attachment, have the capacity of that vision. They become the saints and heroes, the stories for future generations.

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
I totally accept the sincerity of the Baha'i community. I hope they accept also my sincerity in that it doesn't work for me to accept Baha'u'llah not just as a teacher and example, but as the second coming of the Christ ...
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That is great. We can work together for the Good of all Humanity. We can love all people of all Faiths, together as lovers of God.

Regards Tony
 
Sure. But these Faiths have boundaries. Some have reincarnation, others do not. Some believe Jesus was the promised messiah, some do not. Some believe Jesus died on the cross, some do not. These are not easily reconcilable. It's unlikely they can ever all agree -- except to agree to disagree.

The Baha'i faith is undeniably constructing it's own 'master religion' around Baha'u'llah as the promised one of all these religions. It's not difficult to understand that doesn't fly? Surely ...
 
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RJM said:
Sure. But these Faiths have boundaries. Some have reincarnation, others do not. Some believe Jesus was the promised messiah, some do not. Some believe Jesus died on the cross, some do not. These are not easily reconcilable. It's unlikely they can ever all agree -- except to agree to disagree.

The Baha'i faith is undeniably constructing it's own 'master religion' around Baha'u'llah as the promised one of all these religions. It's not difficult to understand that doesn't fly? Surely ...
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Beliefs often vary within religions. It's not so black and white within these boundaries. For example, the Qur'an does not say Jesus did not die on the cross. It's Muslim tafsir that reads it into the text. There are Muslim traditions that assert he died.
 
RJM said:
Absolutely
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Boundaries are not static. They often fluctuate through time. At one time Jesus' death on the cross was more acceptable for some Muslim groups until a different narrative became more dominant. Although this is the case, Ismaili Muslims today still accept Jesus died.

Religions often adopt ideas from outside itself.

Imagine what Judaism would look like without Zoroastrianism. Would there be an idea of physical resurrection? Throughout Jewish history many ideas about the afterlife have appeared. The Sadducees even denied its existence.

Boundaries change.
 
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Ahanu said:
Beliefs often vary within religions. It's not so black and white within these boundaries. For example, the Qur'an does not say Jesus did not die on the cross. It's Muslim tafsir that reads it into the text. There are Muslim traditions that assert he died.
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Wouldn't the original beliefs be THE beliefs, everything and anything else is not that original belief system?
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
Wouldn't the original beliefs be THE beliefs, everything and anything else is not that original belief system?
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I think we can see that one core element of all Faiths is self improvement, by practice of virtues, that in turn build strong families and communities.

Regards Tony
 
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Ahanu said:
Imagine what Judaism would look like without Zoroastrianism. Would there be an idea of physical resurrection? Throughout Jewish history many ideas about the afterlife have appeared. The Sadducees even denied its existence.
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Yes, but @Ahanu how well do you know exactly what Jews believe? Or Hindus, or Christians? No disrespect intended, but this would seem to be the point? It is not possible to judge others' religions without understanding the intricacy and detail. The followers of these ancient religions are not impressed by Baha'i apparently wanting to just wave them away with a few words based on apparently a surface knowledge.*

There is a huge depth to most of these religions. People spend lifetimes finding ever deeper meaning from their own religions.

*If you yourself do not do this, some other Baha'i appear to ...
 
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Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
I do not know any Baha'i that sees any God given Faith as Trivial. One has to consider that It is God that renews Faith. In fact, as a Baha'i, we embrace all God given Faiths in the same light as our own.
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A bit of personally hard-won advice about hugging and all kinds of embraces, physical and spiritual, in general: Consesus is key. Some people love embraces, others would just prefer to shake hands.

So how is that trivial?

Can one offer that a Christian dismissed the Old Testament as trivial and outdated
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I just came back from a family reunion. Families are complicated! The amount of projection going on between us cousins was truly olympian in scope. These are tough nuts to crack, in any setting!
 
Cino said:
The core of Buddhism has no overlap at all with building strong families or communities.
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Bingo.
Good community values usually flow from 'the spiritual path' but are not the key driver. The yogas are about the individual becoming open to enlightenment. It is more about personal experience of Spirit and less about social mores. I believe the core teachings filter down to foster beneficial community mores -- in the way that Confucianism becomes the 'householder' benefit of the (original) rigorous Taoist yoga practice. I believe Christ had special teachings for his core followers -- perhaps tailored to each individual -- that filtered down to become the family religion of Christianity, etc.

The first commandment is to honour God above all else -- and from it flows love your neighbour?
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
(Proverbs: 5-6)

But perhaps this is what @Tone Bristow-Stagg is saying?
 
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