Christians you are on Trial Bring your Bible and Defend your self

Basstian

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Year: 33 ad
Setting : During a prayer meeting with your brethren and you hear a knock on the door. Supposing it is another of your brethren and a follower of Jesus you rush to the door and open it.
Standing outside are 20 armed soldiers and other men dressed in what your realize are the adornments of the High priests men.
They ask who among you confess the Name of Jesus?
*Readers of this thread who do not will not be on this trial but can if they choose bring forth acusations against the Christians in question.*

After Claiming that you believe in Jesus and that he is the Son of God you are bound and lead away to a large meeting room.
Looking around you see 40 to 50 men Dressed in the Traditional robes of the sadducees and Pharisees among them you See the High priest Annas and his Guards Caiaphas a man named John and Alexander are also there. And Saul of Tarsus.

In a loud voice Annas stands and says " YOU HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF BLASPHEMY AND OF SINS AGAINST GOD WORTHY OF DEATH ACCORDING TO THE LAW. CONSIDER YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY YOUR LIVES HANG IN THE BALANCE YOU WILL EACH BE GIVEN AN OPPURTUNITY TO DEFEND YOUR FAITH IF GOD BE WITH YOU YOU WILL SURVIVE THIS TRIAL IF NOT YOU WILL BE STONED BY THE ENDING OF THE DAY. "

Prosecution: will be using the Bible from Genesis 1 to John 21 of the new testament but only versus of the new testement in which religious leaders are involved.
Defence will be allowed all of the Bible and Doctrines of todays Christian Church
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My Purpose in conducting this trial is to see How the Church would stand today If brought on trial like our founders were would our Faith and our doctrine stand. Would we like the discciples and like Paul be found with No fault. The fact is they will still want to Kill us buy the end of this Trial but will if we are true Have no valid reason and will desire this Unjustly
________________________________________________________________
Please When Posting Use in Bold which Side you are representing
PROSECUTION: etc etc etc etc

DEFENCE: etc etc etc

Remember many of our Founders and the Apostles endured this
My question is Can we?
Keep it in Charactor: please enjoy it: I believe it will be a very educational post
I leave you now to make the First Accusation or Defensive statement
 
PROSECUTION:This Jesus you boast of and whom you claim is risen from the dead. Show us your proof!!! Unless we cut your heads off and your childrens heads first.

Prove to us this Jesus you worship is King of Kings and Lord of Lords! You cannot prove such idiot faith, neither will you withstand the pain and affliction that the soldiers will set upon your bodies.
You shall bow to the Government of Rome and Caesar your god! and to it's high men and officials.

Your Jesus has been stolen from the tomb and you shall never see him again, neither your false Kingdom.

Hail to Caesar!

SPEAK in your own defense and for your mystical belief.

is that what you mean Basstian?
 
Deffence:
I see not How Rome being a nation of Gentiles would have any bearing on a trial that is clearly Based on the Promise Give our Father Abraham. The Roman Power you sent Jesus to saw no Fault in Him . I am sure they would Find no Fault in the Group you have bound here.
A Question now to you was the Messiah to be called according to the prophets
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Does it go against your Law to Hope such a Messiah would exist as Gods promise
 
<quiet voice>Psst! 33 AD, rather than 3 AD?</quite voice>

Sounds like an interesting thread. :)

EDIT: Corrected. :)
 
Moderators Note Staying in Charactor will be Fun as long as we are not insulting.
Dont make me hold you in Contempt :) :mad: biggest mean face I could come up with lol

I will allow any aspect of Christianity to be used or used against.
It would seem either the Faith will stand of fall no matter the accusation
Also just becuase the trial setting is 3AD doesnt mean that doctrines from this Curent era and of the past cannot be brought into play.
 
Prosecution

Listen! You heretics have forgotten the words of Torah:

Deuteronomy 13:1 The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it. [2] If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, [3] and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!" [4] do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your G-d, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. [5] HASHEM, your G-d, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. [6] And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your G-d Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you G-d, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst."

You have followed your dreamer of dreams into worship of himself, a man-god, a god whom your ancestors did not know. He gave you signs of wonder and you failed the test. You succombed and turned from God. Do you not know as it says in Torah:

Numbers 23:19 G-d [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, [nor] in the son of man, in whom [there is] no help.

Hashem did in fact proclaim, "Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy G-d, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no elohim acherim before me." But you have made this man into an elohim, as the word is also used for a person of authority, and placed him before God.

I recognize similarities between your beliefs, and those of the Mithraists. But I suppose that's what gradually happens to Hellenizers and pagans such as yourselves.

You introduce ideas such as human sacrifice and the view that one being can die to remove another's sin, when in fact the Torah says "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deuteronomy 24:16) And where in the Torah or any other part of the Tanach does it describe the method by which human sacrifice should take place? All sacrifices are clearly described, and they all take place in the Beit HaMikdash(Temple). Where is the description for a human sacrifice that dies of prolonged suffering, rather than quickly with limited suffering as God usually requires?

What say you?

(OOC: I will point out that only what you call the "OT" would be considered valid to them, and they wouldn't accept a translation that removed itself from the meaning of the Hebrew. If you feel that my presence in this thread will become a problem, I will gladly leave you be. I have decided not to balk at the historical innaccuracies of this gathering and go with it instead.)
 
welcome stay you are needed in this trialDeffence the pharisees do they not from careful study of the law and the prophets believe in the resurection of the dead. Yet because we have seen and witnessed such we stand accused as heretics
Of what scripture Did moses warn of listening to a Man whos Goal is to draw people into a closer relationship with God thru Honoring the Law and the prophets Jesus said that Not one jot or Title will pass from the Law till all is fufilled.
Was not our Father Abraham asked to sacrifice his first Born as a sign of his dedication?
Your rejection could it not be the fulfilment of the prophet
1: Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2: For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3: He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4: Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6: All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7: He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Why would Him being a sacrifice for our sins be counted as strange when God said
12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors
 
Deffence I also object to the reading of Laws you wish to covict us of with out reading of the transgressions or the words spoken. You presented laws but no examples of how anyof us had broken them. We had come to the temple to worship in accordance to the law to present ourselve as Jewish men Before God and now stand before you. You have presented no transcript of words that were said In violation of the LAW
 
(Bass, in the future could you please include citations for verses you quote? Thank you.)

Basstian said:
welcome stay you are needed in this trialDeffence the pharisees do they not from careful study of the law and the prophets believe in the resurection of the dead. Yet because we have seen and witnessed such we stand accused as heretics

No, you are accused as heretics for avodah zerah (literally means strange worship and has a somewhat looser definition than the the English word Idolatry) and blaspheme. (assuming that your position is one of a Trinity. What is your position?) You blatantly worship an elohim acherim. Had you only claimed to see a miracle, then there would be no trial. You know as well as I do that when HaMoshiach comes God will bring world peace and all of the people will be gathered back to Israel. The Beit HaMikdash will be rebuilt, etc.

Of what scripture Did moses warn of listening to a Man whos Goal is to draw people into a closer relationship with God thru Honoring the Law and the prophets

This is not the problem. Hillel was a wise man. I don't worship him. That would be avodah zerah. And Jesus also said that the only way to find God was through him. How is this wise, if every individual has a direct connection to God? By making himself an intermediary he becomes an elohim acherim. I cannot approve.

Jesus said that Not one jot or Title will pass from the Law till all is fufilled.

How do you fulfill an eternal covenant? There will be no end. The Torah represents God's will for man on earth.

Was not our Father Abraham asked to sacrifice his first Born as a sign of his dedication?

It was also a warning for those people who were still sacrificing their children. Because they could look to Torah and see a familiar story of God asking for a child, but no! It was just a test. God does not want this. No child shall die for the sins of the father, or vice versa. We die for our sins alone.

Your rejection could it not be the fulfilment of the prophet
1: Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2: For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3: He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4: Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6: All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7: He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Why would Him being a sacrifice for our sins be counted as strange when God said
12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors[/QUOTE]

Where do you get the idea this is about HaMoshiach? I see no place where HaMoshiach is mentioned here. I'm not sure why you started quoting where you did. What leads you to assume the verse begins there? I, as a Jew living in this time period, know of no such passage breaks. As this does not claim to be about HaMoshiach, we cannot make that assumption. On the other hand, there is something else suggested by the text:

Isaiah 41:8-9: But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob who I have chosen, descendant of Abraham, my friend; You whom I have called from its remotest parts, and said to you, you are My servant, I have chosen you and not rejected you.

Isaiah 42:1: Behold my servant, whom I shall uphold; My chosen one, who My soul desired; I have placed My spirit upon him so he can bring forth justice to the nations.
 
Isaiah 43:10: You are my witnesses, declares Hashem, and my servant whom I have chosen:  that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 44:1-2: But now listen, O Jacob my servant, and Israel whom I have chosen:  Thus says Hashem, who made you, and formed you from the womb, who will help you, “Do not fear O Jacob, my servant, Jesharun who I have chosen.”

Isaiah 44:21: Remember these things O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant, I have formed you, you are My servant O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me.

Isaiah 45:4: For the sake of Jacob my servant, and Israel, my chosen one, I have even called you by your name.

Isaiah 48:20: Go forth out of Babylon, flee from the Kasdim with a voice of singing declare, tell this, say it even to the ends of the earth; say “Hashem has redeemed His servant Jacob.”

Isaiah 49:3: And said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

We are the suffering servant. Look around you. Jesus was one Jew who suffered and died, like so many others. And it doesn't stop. The Romans peeled off my brother's skin, layer by layer, until he collapsed and died, just because he studied Torah! You have abandoned your brethren and annointed another golden calf. You've become like the Romans.

Dauer
 
*** Observation *** thus far it is not looking so good for the defendants I need help NOT that I am giving up Dauer has just blasted me with more scripture than I can can build a rebutal for on my own Please Christains let your voices be heard. ;) :rolleyes:
 
OOC: Perhaps it would be helpful to understand the traditional role of the moshiach in Judaism, as it differs greatly from that of messiah in Christianity. If a trial such as this did ever happen in any way shape or form, the early Christians would have been privy to such information.

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm
 
deffence

Dauer I am really confused which inspires me to learn
I read the traditions that Jesus held dear in his religion He never once comannded people to become anything other than what you might call evolved Jews but I see all his disiplices holding fast to the faith of there fathers. The Church of Rome made a choice basiccly that everything Jewish ie the sabbath Passover the feasts and offerings and the study of Moses and the Law were to be removed from there church they replaced them with Icon and Idols from to cults of that time Created Gods and stone statues that were worshipped of the saints the Changed the day of worship under pressure of pagens the had infiltrated the administration of the Church. Exchanging passover for easter calling what had been a holy day for the fertility God a celebration of the reserection established Christams in Honor of "the Birth of Christ when they New it was to appease those who worshiped Tamauzz (who is you see is in your past as well warnings in the prophets about worshiping him0 the sunrise services the Hot Cross Bunns Lent (weeping for tamuzz) Now our Chrurch is Blindly folowing all these things and Knowbody seems to care I want to be a Jew I believe in Christ but all this other is Far from what I have learned in the Law and the prophets and I believe that is bound to be the downfall of my religion.
I am stuck I Know the truth I cant say it or I am deemed a heritic also I am not of the age to stand and correct elders. Some believe like I do I know of a couple of Chruches . I believe the Roman Church has been the cause of your peoples sorrows in many ways and is the cause of our deception. Not Jesus every thing Jesus Asked me to Do is in Line with the Laws as I know them given to Moses
I feel alone sometimes as elijah when he was fed buy ravens and I wait on the Lord holding my faith
The other Christians Here wil have to speak on their own behalf
I still Profess Jesus the Son of God and Believe he is the Fufilment of the prophecy.
 
John 18

defense: If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

hey Bass- <ssshhh psspsss>- we can always reply with "Thou Sayest":D
 
Now our Chrurch is Blindly folowing all these things and Knowbody seems to care I want to be a Jew I believe in Christ but all this other is Far from what I have learned in the Law and the prophets and I believe that is bound to be the downfall of my religion.
I am stuck I Know the truth I cant say it or I am deemed a heritic also I am not of the age to stand and correct elders. Some believe like I do I know of a couple of Chruches . I believe the Roman Church has been the cause of your peoples sorrows in many ways and is the cause of our deception. Not Jesus every thing Jesus Asked me to Do is in Line with the Laws as I know them given to Moses
I feel alone sometimes as elijah when he was fed buy ravens and I wait on the Lord holding my faith
defense:

I want to be a Jew also! A Jew who will not reject Jesus. Not a Christian any more, but an engrafted gentile into the Jew. Rome caused many problems for us, Rome has fallen... but I will still stand in the shoes Jesus stood in, though I be crucified or stoned. That is why we are being tested in these last 100 years. That is why we have access to the complete bible in all languages.

It is almost like 1000 years of deception have passed and here we are in the latter rain with the truth in abundance at our fingertips.

Dont expect too many to see it that way Basstian:)
 
dauer said:
OOC: Perhaps it would be helpful to understand the traditional role of the moshiach in Judaism, as it differs greatly from that of messiah in Christianity. If a trial such as this did ever happen in any way shape or form, the early Christians would have been privy to such information.

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm
The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "moshiach" will be used throughout this page.
this is one reason I feel so much like a Jew inside sometimes, for the very fact that Rome started the whole godman mess. maybe I am part Jew and have just been scattered.
I know there is prophecy of Jesus as the sacrifice. (but I am at work and cannot get to the scriptures)
But I think it is sad that some Jews dont even believe that the N.T. with Jesus even happened. In that respect Rome did what it was supposed to do by preserving it, just with the wrong intent and ideas.

What About Jesus?
Jews do not believe that Jesus was the moshiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the moshiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.
This Jesus is speaking of the eternal kingdom, not a physical kingdom. This is during the 1000 years of peace which is to come, when Jesus will reign over all nations.
Not only will he fulfill and lead in the eternal Kingdom, but all phsyical kingdoms will be left in ruins.
He most certainly did fulfil his mission because He lives within my heart. This peace they are looking for is inside the heart. Not some man made physical peaceful notion of a messiah. That person will be a FRAUD!
tHAT IS NEVER going to happen again.
 
*note* I thank you bandit for coming forward as a defendant ant not a prosecuter I would ask that you remeber that this trial is taken Place in the House of God and I would like to Discourage you from using angry words like God d** When we Both Know it was Roman damned.

Defence I count over 45 prophecies in my Old testament pointing towards the redeemer of Isreal the messiah as us Christians call Him. Jesus fulfiled every one of them as far as an eternal Kingdom
Isaiah spoke of a New heavon and a new eart when all flesh would Come to worship Him from one new moon to another and one sabbath to another
JUst because He Did not wipe out the Roman army does not mean this Kingdom Doesnt exist
Jeremiah siad the law would be written in a man heart in the new covenant How do you as a judge read what Has been written in my heart.

Tell Me Now Do your traditions Fall in line with the Laws Handed to you from Moses
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We must then Do away with these Modren Doctrines and go back to the original letter of the Law
The Statutes and ordinances we can both agree have become out dated as civil law we no longer gather manna as our fathers Did we no longer live in the incampments of our fathers.
But the Law The Ten that where Chiseled in stone prove we have been led from them and I will admit my Guilt
Also ask yourself is Handing a Jew over to be murdered By the Romans who Found Know fault in Him not murder?
I thank God he was the Lamb of God and that his death was part of Gods plan so that this Sin will not be held against you. But with It comes the offer of your Slavation.
As far as the Golden Calf ? You My friends must be saving for that build seeing the money changers in the temples and the Fine adornments you wear. My only Question is when will you like are Fathers Decide that the Time is Right to Forge this Idol ?
 
*note* I thank you bandit for coming forward as a defendant ant not a prosecuter I would ask that you remeber that this trial is taken Place in the House of God and I would like to Discourage you from using angry words like God d** When we Both Know it was Roman damned.


godMAN Basstian, Not god da** godman, GODMAN is one of the terms they all made up to try and keep Jesus alive and prove things that they did not understand at the time.
but now it all makes perfect sense to me. It had to happen that way to preserve the truth for our day. Do you see that?
We dont have to stay stooped in Romes tradititions.

the hardest part of the trial is trying to stay in the year 30 AD, LOL, because we already know what happened and Jesus is the victor! and so are we!.
Yes then, lets go through each of the prophecies one at a time to prove our case and that we are not guilty.:)
 
LOL my apologies this is what happens when you read posts at 3am in the morning. I thought you were really getting Fired up about it lol

sorry and again *blush*
godMAN Basstian, Not god da** godman, GODMAN

(Basstain askes for a recess till his Brain functions better lol)
 
Prosecution

Listen! You heretics have forgotten the words of Torah:

Deuteronomy 13:1 The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it. [2] If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, [3] and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!" [4] do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your G-d, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. [5] HASHEM, your G-d, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. [6] And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your G-d Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you G-d, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst."

Defense: The modern Jews appeal to this passage as justifying their rejection of Jesus Christ. But He possessed all the characteristics of a true prophet, and He was so far from alienating the people from God and His worship that the grand object of His ministry was to lead to a purer, more spiritual and perfect observance of the law.

A dreamer of dreams - One that pretends God hath revealed himself to him by visions or dreams. Giveth a sign or wonder - That is, shall foretell some strange and wonderful thing.......

Many have been witness to the signs and wonders of the Messiah our Lord Jesus Christ. They witnessed his birth.. his ministry..his miracles...his being witnessed of by John the baptist who was the voice in the wilderness..the transfiguration.. his death which was foretold in Psalms and Isaiah.. and his resurrection.



You have followed your dreamer of dreams into worship of himself, a man-god, a god whom your ancestors did not know. He gave you signs of wonder and you failed the test. You succombed and turned from God. Do you not know as it says in Torah:

Defense: Objection Heresay..I followed Gods mandates on how to know a false prophet and I dont see how I failed the test.

Numbers 23:19 G-d [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Defense: "Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely. And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
(Jer 23:5-6)

we will consider the question, "Is Jesus also Jehovah, Yahweh?"
We will start with the above verses. There are two key points to look at in Jer 23:5-6, 'a righteous Branch' and the multiple application of the name 'Jehovah, or Yahweh'.

We know from the genealogy of Jesus Christ, and from the Gospels, that He (Jesus of Nazareth), is the 'righteous Branch.'
"The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."
(Mat 1:1)

We see in Jer 23:5-6, 'Jehovah' speaking and calling the 'righteous Branch' 'JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' We know that 'Jehovah' is the name of the God of Israel, Our Almighty and Eternal God.
" And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation."
(Exo 3:15)
"And you shall not profane My holy name. But I will be holy among the sons of Israel. I am Jehovah who is sanctifying you, "
(Lev 22:32)
"For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says Jehovah. "
(Jer 29:9)
We find Our Great God naming 'the righteous Branch', Jesus Christ, as 'JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' This names Him as God Almighty and Eternal, since the name/title 'JHVH, or YHWH' was only applied to the God of Israel, 'The Great I AM', by the Spiritually inspired Hebrew writers of Testament.

Further proof is evidenced by comparing Isa 61:1-3 and Luke 4:17-21.
"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on Me; because Jehovah has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to preach the acceptable year of Jehovah and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give to them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the mantle of praise for the spirit of heaviness; so that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that He might be glorified."
"For I Jehovah love judgment-"

(Isa 61:1-3 & 8)
We find that Isa 61:8, names the speaker of verses 1-3 as 'Jehovah'. He states that He has been anointed by Jehovah to preach the Gospel. Again, we find 'JHVH, or YHWH' being assigned by God's inspiration to two different beings. In the Gospel of Luke we find this corresponding entry concerning Jesus,
"And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, 'The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor, (etc).'- "
"And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears."

(Luke 4:17-19 & 21)
With these verses, Jesus names Himself the anointed 'Jehovah' of Isa 61:1-3, which in turn names Him God.

More Scriptural proof that Jesus is 'Jehovah' occurs in Isa 48:16-17 & Zec 2:10-11,
"Come near to Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me. So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God -"
"Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion. For lo, I come, and I will dwell in your midst, says Jehovah. And many nations shall be joined to Jehovah in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. "

We again see the name 'Jehovah' being used to indicate two individual beings. We have 'Jehovah' speaking and being sent by 'the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit'. In other words, 'Jehovah your God' is sent by the 'Lord Jehovah and His Spirit'. The 'sent One' is identified in the Gospels,
"And He (Jesus) said to them, I must proclaim the gospel, the kingdom of God, to other cities, because I was sent on this mission,"
(Luke 4:43)
"Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me."
(John 8:42)
" do you say of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme, because I (Jesus) said, I am the Son of God?"
(John 10:36)
In these, and numerous other, verses of the Bible, Jesus is proclaimed as the 'Sent One', which in accordance with Isa 48:16-17, and other Scriptures, names Him as 'Jehovah God.'

Additional Biblical testimony that Jesus is God, is provided by the Gospel of John.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(John 1:1)
"And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth."
(John 1:14)
From verse 14, we can determine that ' the Word' is Jesus. The final portion of verse 1 proclaims that the Word was God. See
John 1:1-3 Bible Study for more in-depth info.
(Note; The contention that this part of the verse should read, 'the Word was a god', is refuted by the original Greek manuscripts, which read, 'God was the Word.' Additionally, the Title 'ho theos' is used for the name 'God'. Throughout ALL the Greek manuscripts, this TITLE was used only to name the One, True, God. For a more in-depth explanation see
The Title ho theos.)
" Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?"

(John 14:8-9)
Also we find more proof in
John 20:28-29
Both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible contain many proclamations that Jesus is God, 'JHVH and ho theos'. We also find several titles being shared by God, Jehovah and Jesus. These also attest to the fact that Jesus is God.


Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, [nor] in the son of man, in whom [there is] no help.

Defense: Son of man in this verse is not the same as the title that Jesus used in the OT..
Denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their weakness and frailty (Job 25:6; Psalms 8:4; 144:3; 146:3; Isaiah 51:12, etc.).



It is a title frequently given to the prophet Ezekiel, probably to remind him of his human weakness.



In the New Testament it is used forty-three times as a distinctive title of the Saviour. In the Old Testament it is used only in Psalms 80:17 and Daniel 7:13 with this application. It denotes the true humanity of our Lord. He had a true body (Hebrews 2:14; Luke 24:39) and a rational soul. He was perfect man.


Hashem did in fact proclaim, "Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy G-d, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no elohim acherim before me." But you have made this man into an elohim, as the word is also used for a person of authority, and placed him before God.

Defense: Indeed, for the divine name, YHWH, was given to Jesus, that every knee should bow to him and every tongue confess that he is Lord Isa 45:20-23). New Testament believers are to live their lives in Jesus' name just as the Old Testament believers were to live in the name of God the Lord.

I recognize similarities between your beliefs, and those of the Mithraists. But I suppose that's what gradually happens to Hellenizers and pagans such as yourselves.

Defense: Objection your honor.. badgering the witness

You introduce ideas such as human sacrifice and the view that one being can die to remove another's sin, when in fact the Torah says "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deuteronomy 24:16) And where in the Torah or any other part of the Tanach does it describe the method by which human sacrifice should take place? All sacrifices are clearly described, and they all take place in the Beit HaMikdash(Temple). Where is the description for a human sacrifice that dies of prolonged suffering, rather than quickly with limited suffering as God usually requires?

What say you?

Defense: Genesis 22: 1 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." 2 Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

Would God ask Abraham to do what he himself would not do?
 
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