Religious books and a description of the Origins of the Universe according to science?

[Aupmanyav]

Science will never have convincing proof in my lifetime, to show how the universe and life came to be. We have lots of interesting and conflicting ideas, but no hard evidence how matter and energy first came into existence. To be fair, the BB, probably destroyed any pre-existing evidence.

Not completely, CMBR. I agree that convincing proof will not be available in my life-time, perhaps decades or a few centuries later, but I would not replace it with "Goddidit".
"CMB is landmark evidence of the Big Bang theory for the origin of the universe."

Cosmic microwave background - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[EricPH]

I personally have no problem at all accepting abiogenesis and BB theories into my faith, as the mechanism of nature. The problem would be to refuse to even consider them, because they don't fit my own religious beliefs?

Mathematically, how could evolution happen without God? Four billion years ago, there was no life. The human body has around thirty plus trillion cells. The cells are renewed at the rate of around 330 billion every day. This means our bodies are producing and organising cells at the rate of around one billion cells every five minutes. The human body is made up of around 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. Imagine doing a billion piece jigsaw puzzle of a human skeleton every five minutes for seventy years.

The blue whale is about 2000 times the size of a human. Their bodies could have around sixty thousand trillion cells, and they live up to about a hundred years. This would mean, their bodies will grow at the rate of around five hundred trillion cells, every year. Over a trillion cells every single day for a hundred years. Plus they would be renewing their cells at the rate of trillions plus per day.

Random mutation plays a part in evolution, but how can you use the word random with rapid cell growth and astronomical numbers. Imagine the chaos that could ensue, when cells are growing and being organised at the rate of a billion cells every couple of minutes. If a few million - billion cells went adrift, the problem could only compound.

The maximum number of blue whales would likely be less than a million, a generation is about ten years. Evolution has very small numbers to work with. Five billion years ago, there was no life. Life on earth may have started around 3.8 billion years ago, at that point there was single cell life and no blueprint for a blue whale. The 3.8 billion year journey, seems mathematically impossible without God.

 

[TheLightWithin]

do continue to enjoy the show old mate, cos there's more to come.

Well, I hope so, what you said was super interesting, but I fear you've gone.
I don't know if I'm totally sold on it, BUT I do think it's a really interesting exploration of allegory meets literalism meets metaphysics.
I hope you didn't get permanently discouraged. Just because others aren't at all sold on it doesn't mean it isn't worth talking about.
If you are gone for good -- well I hope you found a place to talk with someone like minded.
Maybe see you here again!

 

[Aupmanyav]

The human body has around thirty plus trillion cells. The cells are renewed at the rate of around 330 billion every day.

If a few million - billion cells went adrift, the problem could only compound.

How does one cell grow into a 3.3 kg new born in 9 months, and a fully grown human in 18 years (and sometimes in a 635 kg human at the age of 38 - Jon Brower Minnoch)? How much do you think the cells weigh? The brain has 80 billion of them. The cells do not go adrift when we are young or adult. They do so in old age.

Whales are currently the best example to show that molecules are generated quickly. They take 8-10 years to be sexually mature.

 

[EricPH]

How does one cell grow into a 3.3 kg new born in 9 months, and a fully grown human in 18 years

A zygote has all the necessary information, so no problem. Now go back four billion years, to no life, then 3.8 billion years to single cell bacteria type cells. Where is the evidence to show how multi trillion cell organisation progressed from 3.8 billion years ago. All there is, is guess work. I despair at how science claims a working theory. Using words like, possibly alien life from another planet, evidence lost, undecided how this happened, many scientists think, evidence suggests, estimate of probabilities, life could have started in thermal vents. All these wishy washy statements came from a ten minute video posted on this forum to show how life began.

 

[Aupmanyav]

A zygote has all the necessary information, so no problem. Now go back four billion years, to no life, then 3.8 billion years to single cell bacteria type cells. Where is the evidence to show how multi trillion cell organisation progressed from 3.8 billion years ago. All there is, is guess work. I despair at how science claims a working theory. Using words like, possibly alien life from another planet, evidence lost, undecided how this happened, many scientists think, evidence suggests, estimate of probabilities, life could have started in thermal vents. All these wishy washy statements came from a ten minute video posted on this forum to show how life began.

At the moment there is no better theory than from RNA to DNA.
Do you mean that the walker was non-existant between foot prints? The progress is seen in fossil records which show continuous changes.

 

[TheLightWithin]

All these wishy washy statements came from a ten minute video posted on this forum to show how life began.

Wishy washy? Hmm... Sounds a little edgy. Are you irritated by the videos? By the theories?

 

[RJM]

Nick Lane isn't wishy washy, lol

 

[EricPH]

At the moment there is no better theory than from RNA to DNA.

But the theories today, amount to no more than beliefs. Real science would show the evidence to say how it could happen without God? that hard testafiable evidence does not exist.

The progress is seen in fossil records which show continuous changes.

We can see the diversity and complexity of life today, it had to get here somehow. The very incomplete fossil record shows change, but it does not show how this change could happen without God.

 

[EricPH]

Wishy washy? Hmm... Sounds a little edgy. Are you irritated by the videos? By the theories?

Earth has the ideal conditions for life, so why do we have to look elsewhere for the origins of life. Why look at Mars, or any other nearby planet, even if there are remote signs of life, they have not advanced like we have. Saying life could have come from comets crashing down to Earth, or aliens, or thermal vents. Which is it?

Did aliens create the universe, how did alien life start and go joy riding on a comet?

In the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, I believe that God created the universe and life. How he did it, would be interesting to know, but the more important question to ask is, Why did God create the universe and life?

 

[TheLightWithin]

But the theories today, amount to no more than beliefs. Real science would show the evidence to say how it could happen without God? that hard testafiable evidence does not exist.



We can see the diversity and complexity of life today, it had to get here somehow. The very incomplete fossil record shows change, but it does not show how this change could happen without God.

Depending on how much patience you have to plunge into the data driven research on genetics, you could find the information that might satisfy your question

However, the problem you are running into is that you are asking fundamentally a philosophical question rather than a scientific question.
Scientists can explain the processes pretty well, and they keep gathering data.
But where the worm turns for you seems to be "how could they do it without God?"
That isn't really a scientific question as such. Scientists often enough don't even concern themselves with that question.
Physicists can tell you about how the mechanics of motion works, geologists can tell you something about the history of the earth, chemists can tell you about how the chemicals formed, and biologists could tell you about the genetics of evolution etc.
If you were to ask one of them the role God played in it or didn't, the answer would be heavily guided by their beliefs.
If the scientist happened to be religious, they may or may not be able to give you and answer that reconciles known science with religious dogma
A non believer would shrug and say "goofy question, who knows, this is just what things do"

 

[Aupmanyav]

We can see the diversity and complexity of life today, it had to get here somehow. The very incomplete fossil record shows change, but it does not show how this change could happen without God.

They are more than just beliefs, but we are missing a link. That is why science does not make a declaration at the moment.
Science does not find any 'hand of God' in evolution.

In the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, I believe that God created the universe and life. How he did it, would be interesting to know, but the more important question to ask is, Why did God create the universe and life?

A stale question. God created conditions for survival of life, or life and survival happen when the conditions are suitable.
Believe whatever you want, we (those who go with science) do not care about that.