Some Curiosity Questions for Muslims :)

[Thinking required]

The criticism refers to those elements in Christian belief that go in the same direction. I found different attitudes among Christians; some also worship God alone, as Muslims do. Many, however, pray to Jesus (p.b.u.h) and assign to him what Jesus truely assigned to God; I recently heard a reverend saying, "Jesus rules over the whole world". Catholic Christians kneel down before images of Jesus or Mary (a.s.).

All true Christians only worship God alone. Not understanding God is what gets people into trouble. I am not about the try once again to explain the unexplainable. I have already stated the God is unexplainable. The problem is that people believe that they have to explain God and put humanity on God. Did God appear to man kind in a fleshly form, yes. God walked and talked to Adam in the garden in the ”cool of the day”. Now that’s impossible since God is Spirit and has no human body. There is nothing that God can not do, even showing up on this planet in the person of Jesus. Even the Quran states that Jesus was born to a virgin, now that’s totally impossible. So, who was Jesus’ father? Can we just call Him the Son of God? A human can not wrap their mind around this and we don‘t have to. Jesus always pointed us to God, Jesus says that He came from God and would return to God. Now if God took on bodies in the Jewish Scriptures, and spoke as God, then what’s your problem?

 

[Thinking required]

They were practising monotheists. It is unclear from when the Israelites turned from practising monotheistm (you must not worship any God beside Him) to philosophical monotheism (there is no other God beside Him)

Israel were never polytheist, neither were Christians. Muslims are just as Polytheist as everyone else. If a Muslim desires anything in this word, they have now just set up an idol, polytheists. There is no way to compare Muhammad to Abraham. Muhammad was influenced by Catholism and also had access to the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. Why do you think that the Quran states Mary as the mother of God. That was Catholic foolishness to call Mary the mother of God. No Christian has every done that. Jesus did not even acknowledge Mary as His mother. Jesus never calls her ”mother” in the Scriptures. And look at this verse;

Luke 2:48–50 (NASB95): When they saw Him, they were astonished; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us this way? Behold, Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You.”
49 And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
50 But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.
He was @12years of when He did this.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Israel were never polytheist, neither were Christians. Muslims are just as Polytheist as everyone else. If a Muslim desires anything in this word, they have now just set up an idol, polytheists. There is no way to compare Muhammad to Abraham. Muhammad was influenced by Catholism and also had access to the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. Why do you think that the Quran states Mary as the mother of God. That was Catholic foolishness to call Mary the mother of God. No Christian has every done that. Jesus did not even acknowledge Mary as His mother. Jesus never calls her ”mother” in the Scriptures. And look at this verse;
Luke 2:48–50 (NASB95): When they saw Him, they were astonished; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us this way? Behold, Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You.”
49 And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
50 But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.
He was @12years of when He did this.

The Quran doesn't state that Mary is mother of God, it denies that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

When I state the Jesus problem, it is a problem to anyone to try to understand just how this can be true. My reply has always been, “how big is your God”,.

It doesn't matter.
If Jesus can be "God", then that means that a person can be God.
Why Jesus, why not any of the billions of others?

The truth is, that God is not a person .. never has been, and never will be.
It makes no sense that a person can walk down the road with God,
who is responsible for the universe and all it contains.
God is neither male or female .. and remains hidden from us.

God has no need to "come as a man" .. nor is it meaningful.
A person cannot be fully man and fully God .. it is illogical.

 

[Thinking required]

It doesn't matter.
If Jesus can be "God", then that means that a person can be God.
Why Jesus, why not any of the billions of others?

Reload you thinking for a minute. Did Jesus have an human father? No, out of all the billions of people you brought up, how many were born to a virgin and without being impregnated by a man. This Jesus thing is not going to be sorted out in a human mind. Do you have a problem with God walking on this earth?

 

[Thinking required]

The truth is, that God is not a person .. never has been, and never will be.
It makes no sense that a person can walk down the road with God,
who is responsible for the universe and all it contains.
God is neither male or female .. and remains hidden from us.

Yes, we agree. God is not a human or a person nor does He have a body. But according to Scripture, God shows up on this planet in times past and communicates with people, Adam, and Abraham are two. God walked and talked with Adam in the cool of the day, as was His habIt. These are human bodies, at least that is the implication with Abraham. God can do as He pleases and no one will tell Him what He can and can not do. That’s a lesson even from the Quran. Whatever Allah wills!

I am not sure where you get “remains hidden from us”. God is everywhere, no one hides from God. The Bible is the Living Word of God. Why would God create humans and not interact with them? Like I keep saying, how great is your god. Why do you think that the Bible is so full of miracles. Our bodies do not go to heaven, we will all be Spiritual beings. No sexual gender at all. No sex in heaven, now there’s a concept for everyone.

 

[Thinking required]

God has no need to "come as a man" .. nor is it meaningful.
A person cannot be fully man and fully God .. it is illogical.

Exactly, when you think that God should be logical, you have now just turn God into a man. There is nothing logical about God. People want to put God in a box and make Him fit their mold. What is illogical is water appearing in a black void and then becoming the earth. We would all say, that can’t happen.

 

[Thinking required]

The Quran doesn't state that Mary is mother of God, it denies that.

Sorry, You are correct, I think it says that Christians called her the mother of God. I have only read through the Quran once and that was years ago, I‘am just about half way thru it again this last week, thought I would refresh my mind. So much repitition.

 

[Cino]

Did Jesus have an human father? No, ...

The gospels of Matthew and Luke go to great lengths to establish that Jesus was a descendant of David. Both genealogies go through Joseph, Mary's husband.

I've always wondered what Christians make of these genealogies. I'd be interested in your Thoughts. Do you think Matthew and Luke believed that Joseph was Jesus' human father?

 

[RJM]

God has no need to "come as a man" .. nor is it meaningful.

Not to you, perhaps. To others it is extremely meaningful: Emmanuel -- God with us. Different religions have their own dogmas and scriptures and dress and diet codes, each wanting to impose, extend it's own club rules beyond the club, to everybody else.

God does what God does, even if people don't like it and reject it. The problem as always, is over-simplification of human terms Father and Son and God, imo

 

[Cino]

I have only read through the Quran once and that was years ago, I‘am just about half way thru it again this last week, thought I would refresh my mind. So much repitition.

It is written in poetic language, not prose.

When I read poetry, I have to go slowly. I can't read a whole anthology cover to cover in one go. With wine, or whisky, I need to sip small mouthfuls, and let it do its thing, and watch. With poetry, I need to take my time, too.

And repetition is a technique poets use. I sometimes resist enjoying it - Jazz, especially Bebop and similar styles, features drum solos sometimes, and I am not always a fan of those, but they fit in undeniably, and the music would be less rich without them.

For some training in appreciating repetition, try the genealogies in Genesis, or the infamous catalog of ships in the Iliad, or Buddhist scripture, especially Mahayana. They love their repetitive lists!

Sorry for rambling. Read the Quran slowly, is what I'm suggesting.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I think it's interesting that Muslims don't believe Isa died on the cross but was raised up to Allah despite the fact that there were witnesses to his last words, the spear puncturing His side after He died, to His burial and the empty tomb.. They believe He will return at the second coming to clear up the false teachings about Him.. contradicting what the OT and NT say about Him. What's problematic for me is that when you show scripture contradicting these claims all that is said is scripture is corrupted. If God can do something as amazing as rapturing someone why would that same God allow His Holy Scriptures to be corrupted beyond recognition and have it rewritten it in the Quran. I feel that logic is missing in all this.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would God create humans and not interact with them?

We can see from the Scriptures, that He does interact with them. [ He as respectful it]
G-d has sent 1000's of messengers to mankind, in order to guide them.
It is easy for G-d. He is closer to us than our jugular vein. Our souls belong to Him.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Exactly, when you think that God should be logical, you have now just turn God into a man. There is nothing logical about God. People want to put God in a box and make Him fit their mold. What is illogical is water appearing in a black void and then becoming the earth. We would all say, that can’t happen.

No. Miracles are not illogical .. they are things that do not usually happen.
When I say illogical, I mean logical absurdities..

The omnipotence paradox has medieval origins, dating at least to the 10th century, when the Saadia Gaon responded to the question of whether God's omnipotence extended to logical absurdities.
...
The best-known version of the omnipotence paradox is the paradox of the stone: "Could God create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it?" This is a paradoxical question because if God could create something he could not do, then he would not be omnipotent.
Omnipotence_paradox - Wikipedia

..and "fully man, fully God" comes under that category, I would say.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

The gospels of Matthew and Luke go to great lengths to establish that Jesus was a descendant of David. Both genealogies go through Joseph, Mary's husband.

I've always wondered what Christians make of these genealogies. I'd be interested in your Thoughts. Do you think Matthew and Luke believed that Joseph was Jesus' human father?

We are here actually in the Islam thread, so let me first point out the Islamic view:
Jesus (p.b.u.h) is born from Mary (a.s.) in virgin birth, not the son of Joseph(a.s.). This is a miracle of God; He made this happen by His Word. It defends the dignity of Mary against the Jews, saying atrocities against Mary. The source of Luke or the author of Matthew is not considered reliable.

Mt and Luke add the genealogy as a proof that he is a descendant of David (a.s.), as the Messiah was expected to be. Ascendence in Judaism is only defined through the male line, that is why they published the lineage of Joseph. But the two contradict each other.

John reports that Jesus denied that the Messiah is from the stem of David.

Although, in contrast to the majority of Muslim scholars, I do not reject the Gospel accounts as unreliable as a whole, I estiz that the genealogies are both fabricated.

 

[Thinking required]

I've always wondered what Christians make of these genealogies. I'd be interested in your Thoughts. Do you think Matthew and Luke believed that Joseph was Jesus' human father?

I don’t have a problem with them and I don’t know any Christians that do. You will also notice in Matthew’s account, Rahab and Ruth are mentioned, have you noticed that? No, Matthew and Luke could not have possible believed that Joseph was Jesus father. Why would they refer to Mary as a Virgin and record that Joseph did not “know” Mary. Jesus even clarifies this in this statement:
Luke 2:46–51 (NASB95): Then, after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
47 And all who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers.
48 When they saw Him, they were astonished; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us this way? Behold, Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You.”
49 And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
50 But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.
51 And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart.
Did you catch that “My Father’s house” the temple.
No matter how you keep trying to twist this Jesus/God thing, you will never put your head around it just like the rest of us. The Bible states and claims that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all God. A non Christian just wants to dismiss this as non-sense, but when they do, they are saying that God could not possible reveal Himself in this manner.
The Jewish text talk about the Spirit of God entering and exiting King Saul. Thoughts?

 

[Thinking required]

John reports that Jesus denied that the Messiah is from the stem of David.

I don’t recall this, Chapter and verse please.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Bible states and claims that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all God.

The Bible is a collection of texts, chosen to form a canon. They are of various age, origin and author.
Furthermore, your statement is about one interpretation of those texts, admittedly orthodox, but many
Christians do not agree with the trinity.

A non Christian just wants to dismiss this as non-sense, but when they do, they are saying that God could not possible reveal Himself in this manner.

As I say it is illogical .. but even if it wasn't, and fully God, fully man made logical sense,
then how does that change anything?
I think that this is the point. The belief leads to ascribing authority to Paul of Tarsus, for example.
..and suddenly, we are being misled away from God's law to Roman law .. the laws of men.

 

[Thinking required]

Bible is a collection of texts, chosen to form a canon. They are of various age, origin and author.
Furthermore, your statement is about one interpretation of those texts, admittedly orthodox, but many
Christians do not agree with the trinity

Actually a person who claims to be a Christian can not be a Christian if they don’t believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, because that person has no savior. Jesus is the one who died so that we could be forgiven. Adam the sin introducer and Jesus, the sin forgives. Sorry, but there is only one interpretation. Jesus tries to show us that just because people read the Scriptures, certainly doesn’t mean the they know the what the Scriptures.
One example:
Matthew 22:28–34 (NASB95): In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.
30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
31 “But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees,

And:
Matthew 7:21–23 (NASB95): Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

[Thinking required]

The Bible is a collection of texts, chosen to form a canon. They are of various age, origin and author.

You need to do your homework. They were all written in the 1st century AD50 - AD90. Not sure what you mean by “origin” since they would have been the originals. Yes, God used different men to pen these Scriptures, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James. But all the Gospels and Letters agree with each other. 2 Timothy 3:16 (NASB95): All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;