A New Creation

[Aupmanyav]

Do things start to get a bit 'Christmasy' this time of year around the parts of the world that you live ?

they surely do with big sales offers, food extravaganzas. i have asked my grand daughter to attend mass with her catholic mother-in-law and grand mother-in-law whom she has come to loves dearly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am, verily, the All-Bountiful, the Ancient of Days.

very egotic, maniacal.

 

[Faithfulservant]

it does. it is the biggest example of exclusivity, not going with the current human values.

My 94 year old Grandmother passed away on Sunday. Days leading up to her death she was reaching towards something. She was non verbal at this point and my mom not understanding would try to lower her arms. This upset my grandmother very much. I told my mom she was seeing something and that it was very common to dying people. So mom asked her if she was seeing someone and Grandma nodded yes. The hospice people told mom they see this all the time where dying people see loved ones who had passed, angels or even Jesus at this time.

I'm telling you this because as much as we think we know the truth in this life how can you even be sure you know you're right?

What if you get to the end of your life and figure out that you've been wrong the entire time?

I never tell people they are going to hell.. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. I believe that anyone that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved because that's what the bible teaches.

Ask yourself why does it offend you that people believe that people that reject Jesus will go to hell. Who cares right? If you don't believe in hell or that Jesus is the way to salvation it shouldn't affect you.. but it does affect you. There is some part of you that fights this belief.

This is my humble opinion.

 

[Thomas]

I'm telling you this because as much as we think we know the truth in this life how can you even be sure you know you're right?

My dad suffered from a heart defect and emphysema, his last words (as they wheeled him from the ambulance to ICU) were: "My heart can't take much more of this."

The days before his death were at home, and the night before my mum heard a sound, went up to the bedroom and found him singing in his sleep. She had never heard him do that before ...

 

[RJM]

You keep imputing things under question marks that are not correct.

Trace the comments you made back and find the true understanding in what I offered.

I apologize then for misrepresenting you. I've no wish to go back through all the years of comments. I would suggest you leave other faiths and religions alone, because it is comes across as dismissive and disrespectful to correct the beliefs of others -- particularly Catholics -- with a very thin understanding of what they actually do believe.

I have learned a lot about your own Baha'i faith here @Tony Bristow-Stagg and feel it may be an opportunity missed for you on this considerate and mature website to get under the skin of what others believe and take home something you did not know yesterday?

However I see no reason to argue with you or appear to attack or disregard your own obviously sincere beliefs, so ...

 

[Thomas]

"The rest of the world" finds your distinction reasonable? Based on what data?

Generally because the term miracle still exists, even if people don't believe it? (Another response could be I find your 'fictitious' lacks nuance.)

Then how come most ancient Greeks accepted the geocentric model of the universe?

How can anyone believe flat-earth today?

The empirical sciences have made notable advances, I'm not disputing that, you're not comparing like with like.

... They lack the rich inner complexity of a character in a modern novel.

are you sure?

I think that's much a matter of taste as anything ... but I'd say there's no lack of insight into the human condition compared to today, there was no lack of richness, but they were ploughing the land, if you like, and we've had 2,000 plus years in which to work it.

But I'm not a classics scholar.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What if you get to the end of your life and figure out that you've been wrong the entire time?

yes, if my analytical abilities fail to function at the time of my death, i may think of something like that. delusions.

 

[Ahanu]

Generally because the term miracle still exists, even if people don't believe it? (Another response could be I find your 'fictitious' lacks nuance.)

Terms often undergo semantic change, my friend, so I am unsure what you're trying to prove by saying "the term miracle still exists" here.

How can anyone believe flat-earth today?

But the majority of the educated public does not believe in a flat world today. However, most educated Greeks in the ancient world accepted the geocentric model.

The empirical sciences have made notable advances, I'm not disputing that, you're not comparing like with like.

Okay. But I think the sciences and our ability to talk about ourselves are somewhat related, not unrelated!

Unlike the ancients, most people today believe their thoughts have some kind of connection with the brain. Our thoughts are not disembodied spirits/gods - as they were represented in an ancient Egyptian work titled "Dispute Between a Man and His Ba."

You know there must be an explanation for why the ancients sounded so different from us. This difference isn't just a result of them writing in a foreign language, ya know . . .

are you sure?

Yep.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

very egotic, maniacal.

The Messengers of God, given the Station God has granted them, are of the utmost humility.

When they speak as God has instructed them to do, they speak with the Power given by God. There is no higher power for us, they One and All bring a 'New Creation' from God to all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

am unsure what you're trying to prove by saying "the term miracle still exists" here.

I would say it means an event that cannot be explained by science or reason -- a magical or supernatural event -- considering Arthur C Clarke's observation that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

As you keep doing, but as I keep saying, it doesn't really address the point I was making.

Are just searching 'new creation' in Baha'i texts and posting the text as if that's adding something to the discussion?

I see it all with a different frame of reference Thomas. I see things in your post that triggers thing I have read about, they appear relevant to me and I share them.

I agree that the point is relevant, it may be I do not understand your frame of reference about the point you are making. I am not a good listener, but I am alive, their is still time for an old dog to learn new tricks.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

Yep.

OK, then we disagree.

 

[Thomas]

Even if we accept your distinction between miraculous means and natural means of cures for what was once incurable ...

OK

... we must admit natural miracles - such as giving sight to the blind through advances in medical science

I don't think so, as clearly such advances in medical science are just that, and not by any definition of the term, 'miraculous'.

... are greater since they are replicable, whereas miraculous miracles are not.

Clearly, as miracles occur through no human agency.

One-time miracles are no longer impressive,

That's a quality v quantity argument, so I disagree.

but a medical advancement that can cure anybody suffering from a certain disease now and in the future is.

Not disputing that.

Then how come most ancient Greeks accepted the geocentric model of the universe?

The discussion loses traction here – you're not comparing like with like – I'm talking about the Humanities, you're talking about Physical Sciences as if they're the same thing – they're not.

Clearly had the Greeks microscopes, telescopes, etc., they might well have come up with some surprising conclusions. Their understanding of the physical world left a lot to be desired, but philosophically they laid the foundations and their arguments are still relevant today.

Significant in Greek philosophy was the role of reason and inquiry, with an emphasis on rationality and logic and the practice of impartial observation of the natural world. Their contributions to maths and science is considerable – geometry, the concept of mathematical proofs.

Even without telescopes Aristarchus of Samos 300BC proposed the heliocentric theory, and that the stars were suns.

But Greek philosophy – Alfred North Whitehead summed it up: “All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato.”

As for the novel and the lack of inner life – I simply disagree.

 

[Thomas]

Talking of novels ... can we get back to the plot?

 

[Ahanu]

As for the novel and the lack of inner life – I simply disagree.

I do too.

Lacking an inner life and lacking the ability to express it in a rich way are two different things.

 

[Ahanu]

.The discussion loses traction here – you're not comparing like with like – I'm talking about the Humanities, you're talking about Physical Sciences as if they're the same thing – they're not.

They are related in a way (as I pointed out in post number 128).

 

[Aupmanyav]

When they speak as God has instructed them to do, they speak with the Power given by God. There is no higher power for us, they One and All bring a 'New Creation' from God to all humanity.

they need to state clearly that their god is telling them to say so. bahaollah does not make it clear. he always seems to glorify himself.
ambiguous statements, scammers trick.
of course, i neither belive in existence of god nor on any so-called messenger of god.

 

[Faithfulservant]

they need to state clearly that their god is telling them to say so. bahaollah does not make it clear. he always seems to glorify himself.
ambiguous statements, scammers trick.
of course, i neither belive in existence of god nor on any so-called messenger of god.

Why are you so offended by other people's beliefs? I might not have agreed with how Tony expressed his belief at times but it seems you take it all as a personal affront. Do you think we should all believe as you do that there is no God or messengers of God?

 

[RJM]

If a baby in the womb could reason, it might think that life would be impossible outside the womb; how could anyone survive without the umbilical? Yet perhaps that baby would hear sounds from outside the womb – mysterious vibrations – strange hints of something greater beyond?

Perhaps that's us, within the womb of nature?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why are you so offended by other people's beliefs? I might not have agreed with how Tony expressed his belief at times but it seems you take it all as a personal affront. Do you think we should all believe as you do that there is no God or messengers of God?

god made bahaollah a messenger (as per bahai view) but did he make bahaollah an equal? that is why i term bahaollah's statements as tricky.