I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

walter said:
Jesus created everything whether it was in heaven or on earth by his Fathers instructions and power. Which Jesus explains in detail in the gospels. Notice Jesus words in the gospels he gives the credit to his Father most of the time.
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I was always a little confused by that. I guess that has a scriptural basis, but I had always been under the impression that the Father was the creator and the Son was considered the Redeemer (and that theology evolved to be somewhat different than the Jewish conception of Mosiach/Messiah)
 
walter said:
Whether we both read the scriptures differently or not, is it really that difficult, we both speak English and the scriptures are written in English, if we let the words in the scriptures speak for themselves, how hard can it be?
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They're translated into English.
Words don't speak for themselves exactly - they often need to be restated or explained for individuals to understand better.
Definitions of words evolve over time, or have different meanings in different parts of the world (think of the vocab differences in modern times between the UK and the USA) or how often we say "What did you mean?" to anybody?
Also wasn't there a thing in the ancient world where a lot of people didn't necessarily trust writings because you couldn't talk to the author and quiz them or challenge them and ask them to answer your questions?
 
TheLightWithin said:
Also wasn't there a thing in the ancient world where a lot of people didn't necessarily trust writings because you couldn't talk to the author and quiz them or challenge them and ask them to answer your questions?
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The following speaks to the idea a little
fs.blog

Plato's Argument Against Writing

The people who invent something new, create a new tool or technology are not necessarily the people who are going to understand what the social impact of those inventions are going to be.
fs.blog fs.blog
 
TheLightWithin said:
I had always been under the impression that the Father was the creator
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Yes I agree.
John 17:5 Jesus words in prayer with his Father says: glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Note: All these scriptures agree that Jesus was with The God before the world was and through Jesus: at John 1:2-3 This one was with The God in the beginning, 3 Everything, by his hand, was made,Without him, not a single thing was made.

John 5:19
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. New King James Version

John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak from Myself; but the Father dwelling in Me does His works. Berean Literal Bible

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image,...

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. American Standard Version

John 1:1 " In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word. 2 This was in a beginning with the God. 3 All through it was done; and without it was done not even one, that has been done.
Diaglott "Emphatic Diaglott New Testament 1864

2001 Translation of the Bible

A free modern translation of the Bible from the Greek Septuagint, and Greek and Aramaic Christian manuscripts.
2001translation.org 2001translation.org
1 In the beginning, there was the Word,The Word was with The God [Greek: ton theon],And [a] god [Greek: theos] was the Word.2 This one was with The God in the beginning, 3 Everything, by his hand, was made,Without him, not a single thing was made.

John 8:58
NSB(i) 58 Jesus said: »I tell you the truth, I existed before Abraham was born!« (Ex 3:14, 15)

Colossians 1:15
He who is the image of The Unseen God and is The Firstborn of all creation. Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Colossians 1:15
NSB(i) 15 He is the image (likeness) (representation) of the invisible God. He is the firstborn (Greek: prototokos: childbirth, offspring) of all creation.
 
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TheLightWithin

Thread 'Two Powers in Heaven'

Conversation we were having in another thread made me want to address a pre-Christian idea from earlier Judaism about there being two powers in Heaven
The original thread is called - I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses (this is the thread)

The idea may later have been regarded as a "heresy" in Judaism but apparently had acceptance for a time
Dr Michael Heiser was a very good Bible scholar and a committed believer Two Powers in Heaven - Dr. Michael Heiser

Two powers in Heaven: meaning & 8 verses examined | CsV This page alludes to the concept. Elsewhere on the site they...

Two Powers in Heaven
 
- Jesus is The Mighty God with The Almighty God before the world was. Jesus did not say he was the Almighty or the Most High.
- man is made in our image...
- all things are created through Jesus.
- the Son can do nothing of Himself.
- The Father glorifies the Son before the world was.
- Jesus is The Most High's first-begotten first-born First-Son in the heavens.
- Jesus says the authority and power comes from his Father, who Jesus calls God.
- He who is the image of The Unseen God and is The Firstborn of all creation. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Col. 1:15

Summary: Jesus is God's first born Son [ the first Angel ] of all creation in the heavens before the world was, after that Jesus by his Fathers direction and power created all other things everywhere, Jesus if you read the gospels gives his Father the credit for most everything.
​
Jesus is King, Mighty God & God's Son Jn.1:1-3, Lk.1:32-33, Jn 10:34-36, Jn. 17:3,
1 Peter 1:3, Eph. 1:3, Rom. 15:6, Eph. 1:17, Jn. 20:17, 1Cor. 8:6, Jn. 5:19, Jn. 14:10, Jn. 8:28,
Matt. 16:16-17 Shouldn't we believe all the scriptures, to get a more complete understanding?
 
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TheLightWithin said:
TheLightWithin

Thread 'Two Powers in Heaven'

Conversation we were having in another thread made me want to address a pre-Christian idea from earlier Judaism about there being two powers in Heaven
The original thread is called - I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses (this is the thread)

The idea may later have been regarded as a "heresy" in Judaism but apparently had acceptance for a time
Dr Michael Heiser was a very good Bible scholar and a committed believer Two Powers in Heaven - Dr. Michael Heiser

Two powers in Heaven: meaning & 8 verses examined | CsV This page alludes to the concept. Elsewhere on the site they...

Two Powers in Heaven
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Hmmm..... I think maybe people cannot see the threads that are posted in the general Abrahamic area...and not under one of the three religions represented... but I put it there because it is pertinent to both Judaism and Christianity.
 
Caritas said in the opening post: “Ask me anything about my beliefs, if you want
I will do my best to answer”


Hi Caritas. I admit that I have always been more interested in historical and ancient Christianity more than the later, more “modern” Christian movements and so know little about the Jehovahs Witness Movement. Thank you for being willing to answer questions.


I have been talking with a Jehovahs Witness friend who mentioned that the Jehovahs Witness theology concerning death is that the intelligence and emotions and memories within an individual resides in the physical brain (as opposed to residing in an intelligent spirit within the body), and that, upon death and the complete decomposition of the body, nothing, (absolutely nothing) is left of that individuals prior intelligence, emotions and cognizance, other than memories of that person retained by others.

Is this correct?
 
Shouldn't every scripture be important to our understanding?


The Bible explains these ones: shall be cut off, will be no more, will not be found, shall vanish away, be destroyed, will perish. but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, everlasting contempt, Plus Jesus says only few are finding life, not everyone finds life. --Matthew 7:13-14

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible
 
Here's some random thought about Matthew 10:28 –
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in the Vale of Hinnom (Gehenna)" (Matthew 10:28).

It’s a myth that the phrase ‘fear not’ occurs 365 times in the Bible. Nevertheless, 'fear not' in this and other forms, eg 'be not afraid', is the most common phrase.

And yet here, if we follow the most common exegesis – and I do not dispute it – there is a very good reason to fear God, indeed no-one, not even Satan himself, should be feared more.

But ... for one, we are reliably assured God is Love. For another, to put 'the fear of God' into someone is to threaten or terrorise them. And yet we are consistently told not to fear, that we have no reason to fear, because God is with us. (You can look up the references for yourselves.)

"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7).

We are told God is Love, and wants us to love Him. The Shema Israel demands it, and yet it is hard if not impossible to authentically love one we are told to fear because he can kill us.

Let’s look at Matthew 10 in context:
Jesus sends his disciples out specifically to "the lost sheep of Israel" (v6), but He sends them out "as sheep in the midst of wolves" (v16) – He tells them to be "wise as serpents, and harmless as doves" – or as wise as serpents, but not as venomous. Don't be a wolf among the wolves.

If you are well received, then all well and good. If you are not, then just walk away.

But he warns them that persecution will come. All manner of suffering and hatred.

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in the Vale of Hinnom (Gehenna)" (Matthew 10:28).

If we are honest, it is not immediately clear whom Jesus is speaking of when he refers to “the one who is able to destroy both body and soul".

In the first half of this verse Jesus is clearly referring to their persecutors: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (22a), but goes on to say "he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (22b).

But he does not say "fear God who is able to destroy both body and soul" nor "fear Satan who is able". Jesus does not identify "the one".

+++

Is Jesus saying they should go forth and preach the Good News fearlessly, because they’re more afraid of what God will do to them if they don't?

What if he does not mean the Father? What if he means the Prince of this Cosmos, the Archon of the Power of Death, Satan, who rules in hell; what if he means fear not what your accusers will do to you, but rather fear him who is on the tongue of the accuser, who will use the mob to bring you down, (as the mob will call for Jesus’ execution before Pilate), and what he is doing is warning his disciples not to fear or give way in the face of opposition, but to stand fast in the love of the Father? (Because if you give way, the Satan will have you.)

Jesus goes on to say, "Are not two sparrows sold for the smallest pittance? And not one of them will fall to earth abandoned by your Father. But even the hairs of your head have all been numbered. So do not be afraid; you are of greater worth than a great many sparrows."

This, to me, contextualises the idea of remaining steadfast in the face of adversity. Sparrows are sold cheap, but the Father knows every one, so how much more than does your Father know you? He knows every hair on your head. So do not be afraid, He will not abandon you.

Just a thought ...
 
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