I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

[walter]

In context, yes ... taken alone, they could well be completely misunderstood.

So if we can't use "the context" in the scripture, are you suggesting we listen to [ advice or context ] not found in the Bible?

Didn't Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us not to listen to the traditions of men who spoke different words that superseded The Original Teachings of Christ and the Bible ?

 

[Thomas]

Hi Walter –

Didn't Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us not to listen to the traditions of men who spoke different words that superseded The Original Teachings of Christ and the Bible ?

That question highlights the whole point of the argument of context.

I have contended here over deliberate alterations to the text of the New World Translation to bring the translation in line with a man-made tradition.

I am not about to rehearse those arguments. Simply that JWs declare their traditions are true, and others are wrong.

As will every other denomination, in defence of their own position.

+++

The idea that Scripture explains itself is, also, a tradition of man – a staple of the Reformation, but never was that meant to imply the interpretation of Scripture was a matter of personal discernment.

St Paul argues for the different gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 – but here I would suggest the reading makes it plain that the gifts are given to the one for the benefit of all, the community being one, "many members but one body" (eg 12:20).

"27And you are the Anointed’s body and partial members, 28 and God has indeed assigned persons their place in the assembly: apostles first,
prophets second, teachers third, then feats of power, then the gracious gifts of healings, aids, governances, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all feats of power? 30 Do all have graces bestowed for healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But be zealous for greater gifts of grace." (12:27-31)

I do not claim any such grace, nor dare I, but I do rest and trust in the experience, wisdom and insight of the upholders of the ancient traditions, and the wider community of scholars ... rather than rely purely on my own intellect and intuitions – I have been wrong, and I am not infallible.

"And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us." (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

But I speak for me ... we must all walk the path as we see best, in faith and in the hope God will see us home.

 

[walter]

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I use all the Bibles on biblehub.com biblegateway.com and studybible.info I do not need the New World Translation to support anything!

There are over 50 other Bibles translated into English available on the internet.

 

[walter]

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Thank you, I respect your advice and information, may peace be with you.

 

[Thomas]

And with you.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Careful – that Book also says "And I commend joy, for man has nothing better under the sun but to eat and drink and be joyful, for this will go with him in his toil through the days of his life that God has given him under the sun." (8:15) – and I think Jesus would here, as with 9:5-6, have quite a different view on the matter.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says the dead know nothing. Suppose you quote scripture where Jesus indicates he has "quite a different view on the matter"?

The author of Ecclesiastes has not the instruction of Jesus with regard to the afterlife. It was written som time between 450BCE, while the latest possible date is 180BCE.

Thomas:

I asked you to quote scripture where Jesus indicates that he has "quite a different view on the matter" as concerns the condition of the dead, as described at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6. You instead proceeded to give me your personal philosophy at Post 555.

I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

2) NO ONE ACTUALLY TAKES THEIR THEOLOGY DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE, BUT INSTEAD THEY TAKE THEIR THEOLOGY FROM SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION OF SACRED TEXTS As all reading this thread can see, this is not merely a "Jehovah's Witness theology." It is taken directly from scripture in God's inspired...

www.interfaith.org

Obviously, you won't find Jesus' rejection of Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 within the book of Ecclesiastes, because that book was written centuries before Jesus showed up on the earthly scene. However, since all scripture is inspired of God (2 Timothy 3:16 https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=2+timothy+3:16), I would suggest that you go to the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament where Jesus showed up on the earthly scene and proceeded to teach his disciples what they should believe. Do that, and find the scripture where he said something that validates your claim that he did not consider Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 to be literal.

Also be sure and explain to the rest of us why Jesus said at John 5:25, 28-29 https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=John+5:25,+28-29&link=/results/E/all?sort=rel&q= that dead people would have to wait to hear his voice before they could come back to life (the resurrection). In other words, since you are casting doubt on Jesus' acceptance of Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 where it says the dead know nothing and all of their thoughts have ceased, explain to the rest of us why Jesus himself said he would have to resurrect people back to life--if they were not dead at all.



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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

 

[Alter2Ego]

I quoted Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 where it says the dead know nothing. Then I followed that up with Jesus himself saying at John 5:25 and 28-29 that the dead will be brought back to life aka resurrected when he calls their name at a future time.

And I have shown that, it seems to me, you've misinterpreted the text, which is clearly talking about the dead know nothing nor have any more a part to play in this life ...

I haven't misinterpreted anything in the text at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.

And I have shown that, it seems to me, you've misinterpreted the text, which is clearly talking about the dead know nothing nor have any more a part to play in this life ...

That's exactly what my understanding is. We both agree on the same thing, and here we are arguing.





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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18