Reform Catholicism

Well the Catholicism 'I signed up' for turned out to be a Catholicism that covered up, and was complicit in, abuses that are wrong and repulsive to the average atheist, let alone Christian ... so Im not against changes that will see an end to such, even if that includes the clergy coming down off their pedestals.


Will it, though? I don't think so.

Having said that, I see no reason to suppose God hasn't talked to all peoples, in all times, in all places ... I just know, for me, there is but one God, in Three Persons. I really don't see us surrendering that, anytime soon.

I see in your post, you do have a bottom-line, a boundary that cannot be crossed: there is only ONE God, no other gods.

Your boundary is set well behind those 'conservative' Catholics. The reform is not your concern right now but it is a concern to those with 'boundaries' set ahead of yours.
 
What if the doctrine changes, saying worshiping of YHWH can go together with worshiping Buddha, Brahma. Vishu or Shiva?
Is blessing same sex unions or even accepting the fact that some people may worship other gods... in itself equal to worshipping other gods???
I don't see it... help me understand??🧐🤔
 
Ordain married men – and women
Reform Catholic (RC) thinkers are mostly agreed on the question of priestly celibacy – it's unnecessary. Less so on the question of female ordination (an increasing number trending in that direction – to at least a female diaconate).
I'm not Catholic at all, but there are many things I notice about Catholicism, some admirable, some very puzzling.
I don't know what the reason is for needing priests to be celibate.
Even if there IS a need, do ALL priests need to be celibate?
If I understand correctly, priests, monks, and nuns are all in subdivisions called "orders" right?
Couldn't they slowly introduce orders of married priests?

If I understand correctly, female deacons exist in the New Testament, but there are also some remarks in the New Testament that apparently speak directly against women in certain positions of authority, or or preaching. Is that correct?

A more rigorous formation upon clergy
The current shortage means any prospect of a more rigorous training – including psychotherapy – is unlikely. This is why the hierarchy tends to move priests around, rather than outright dismissal for clerical misbehaviour.
To borrow the metaphor, if the priest is 'a doctor of souls', then the training ought to reflect that. We need a clergy that has learned to heal their own wounds, before seeking to present themselves as healers of others.
I agree therapy should be de-riguer.
Perhaps the priesthood is too many jobs rolled into one? Theologian, teacher, counselor, administrator
Maybe those jobs need to be split up with lay people?
Maybe some roles can go only to people over the ages of 30 or 40, for life experience to a factor.
Renew the Liturgy
I've heard of Catholicism as having multiple liturgies... Maybe each church should use several, with things like time of day, day of week, or which holiday or saints day (is that still a thing? I have only read about it) is on the calendar at that time, should dictate which of the many liturgies get used for which services.
Commit to the intellectual movement in the Church
My Course Director once said, "Christianity is Judaism in the light of the Greek Philosophical Tradition". a sound and wise statement.
I agree with the idea of intellectualism being more prominent
I wonder about the "Christianity is Judaism in light of Greek Philosophical Tradition" being true...
I have many times and just recently had Jewish people remind me how different their religion is, and their approach to theology, and that it is not just "Christianity minus Jesus" or "Christianity minus church dogma"

Commit to synodal governance at local, regional, and universal levels.
If you want people to be human beings, then treat them as such, not as sheep, nor as flocks to be 'corralled' and led by the nose. That means recognition of autonomy, that includes bodily autonomy, and the rights to family planning, and end-of-life determination.
Including divorce... that prohibition against divorce...😵😳
[*]Commit to the development of doctrinal dialogue that speaks to the contemporary world
Patristic theologians like Philo, Clement, and Origen, the Cappadocians, Evagrius Ponticus and Maximus the Confessor, Thomas Aquinas along with Bonaventure (and not Thomas to the exclusion of all else) ... the list of great Catholic thinkers and contributors to science goes on.
That seems like a good idea.
 
Is blessing same sex unions or even accepting the fact that some people may worship other gods... in itself equal to worshipping other gods???
I don't see it... help me understand??🧐🤔
I mean those worshiping YHWH , like a Catholics, worships other gods at the same time.
Not the tolerance of some people who would worship other gods.
 
I don't know what the reason is for needing priests to be celibate.
A huge topic for discussion in itself.

It is a simply fact that Jesus, Paul, and the earliest followers whose disciples wrote the New Testament advocated celibacy.

It is also true that they did so believing the end of the age was drawing close and the parousia was at hand.

Early Christianity persistently praised and idealised celibates and ascetics, and had little appreciation for sex, sexuality, or marriage. Sexuality and marriage were seen largely in the context of prestige and power. Christian intellectuals (invariably drawn from among the elites) favoured the ascetical life partly because it suited their ideology. The majority of the laity, like the clergy, continued to marry and raise children as before.

Even if there IS a need, do ALL priests need to be celibate?
Clearly not, as the Church now accepts priests as priests from the Anglican communions, for example, and does not require them to separate from their wives. They probably hope for continence in the marriage, but ...

If I understand correctly, priests, monks, and nuns are all in subdivisions called "orders" right?
Couldn't they slowly introduce orders of married priests?
They technically have. You also have tertiary orders of the monastic communities which does not require the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience.

If I understand correctly, female deacons exist in the New Testament, but there are also some remarks in the New Testament that apparently speak directly against women in certain positions of authority, or or preaching. Is that correct?
Paul worked with female deacons, and Paul supported the silence of women in the synagogue.

But here we have 'revelation' seating in a cultural context, so a lot of what was perceived as 'good' got carried over into the Church.

There was a time when it was argued that there were female deacons until the Church was big enough in numbers to no longer require such an extraordinary and clearly unsatisfactory (!?) circumstance ... a view I disagree with. As soon as possible, the old patriarchy took control, and the degree of misogyny expressed by some early saints and theologians (and later) is breath-taking.

As I've said before – The Archangel Gabriel announced the Incarnation to a woman, not to a man (Joseph had a dream, no angelic appearance for him). The Risen Christ announced His resurrected presence to a woman first, and told her to tell the others. This in the time when the testimony of a woman, without correlative support (ie other witnesses), was inadmissible in a court of law ... that must say something.

Mary Magdalene is called the Apostle to the Apostles, but there is no equivalent station in the Church hierarchy.

Perhaps the priesthood is too many jobs rolled into one? Theologian, teacher, counselor, administrator
Yes.

I've heard of Catholicism as having multiple liturgies... Maybe each church should use several, with things like time of day, day of week, or which holiday or saints day (is that still a thing? I have only read about it) is on the calendar at that time, should dictate which of the many liturgies get used for which services.
Well readings vary on a three-year cycle, but yes, there were various liturgies, but I would suggest getting the basic, standard, vernacular right – or at least better – as a first step.

I agree with the idea of intellectualism being more prominent.
They are there ... it's just they never get a look in.

When the atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens and others were being offered tv slots and we delighted in watching Dawkins especially making fools of poorly-educated, well-meaning Evangelical Christians, it never occurred to anyone to put them up against an equivalent intellectually-gifted philosophers from the religious camp ...

Dawkins' entire thesis has been utterly dismantled by a Dominican writer, who showed the basic and fundamental error in his logic, upon which his whole edifice stood. But the media's not interested in that.

I wonder about the "Christianity is Judaism in light of Greek Philosophical Tradition" being true...
Probably more than people realise ...

I have many times and just recently had Jewish people remind me how different their religion is, and their approach to theology, and that it is not just "Christianity minus Jesus" or "Christianity minus church dogma"
True.

Including divorce... that prohibition against divorce...😵😳
Well that ties in with my reformed marriage idea, in which marriage is a social contract, and can be rescinded.

That seems like a good idea.
I'm full of 'em! ;)
 
I'm not Catholic at all, but there are many things I notice about Catholicism, some admirable, some very puzzling.
I don't know what the reason is for needing priests to be celibate.
Even if there IS a need, do ALL priests need to be celibate?
If I understand correctly, priests, monks, and nuns are all in subdivisions called "orders" right?
Couldn't they slowly introduce orders of married priests?

It is a common story theme in TV drama and shows about cops.
Dedicated police officers are often bad husbands and fathers. They face higher family strains and broken marriage. Their works and irregular schedules disrupt family routines and shared times with spouse and children. Like what is said in gospel: you can't serve two masters.

To be a Catholic priest, one must have full dedication to GOD. Celibacy is better than with family to a priest.
 
Early Christianity persistently praised and idealised celibates and ascetics, and had little appreciation for sex, sexuality, or marriage. Sexuality and marriage were seen largely in the context of prestige and power.
There might be some social value today in creating prestige for celibacy in laypersons.
Some people choose not to be married, then there are those infamous complaining incel types or the recent heightened societal concerns about loneliness amongst adult males. Loneliness in that context isn't always defined as total social isolation, which is a concern of its own. Some of this recent social concern has to do with unpartnered people.

If spirituality could only address and heal the shame people feel both around sexuality and around celibacy, that would be something to celebrate.
It seems though that the church is often blamed for creating the very shame that my scheme would ask for it to heal.
Is there any wonder many turn to alternate spiritualities?
 
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