Torah, Tabbies, and Tunes

For one thing I see varying opinions of what it means to be Jewish and how this relates to Zionism.

I'm also intrigued as to the percieved benefits of tribalism to humanity, not just to members of one tribe or another.
 
Bloodshot said:
For one thing I see varying opinions of what it means to be Jewish and how this relates to Zionism.

I'm also intrigued as to the percieved benefits of tribalism to humanity, not just to members of one tribe or another.
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A non-Jew does not get to tell Jews what it means to be a Jew or what Judaism teaches.

And no, I'm not interested in changing the topic to whether Europeans get to tell people who are party of tribes that they are bad.
 
IndigoChild5559 said:
A non-Jew does not get to tell Jews what it means to be a Jew or what Judaism teaches.
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Sure they do...they get to do whatever they want (if there is such a thing as free speech)

Not to say it is right....but they can and do.

Just as every group has folks who are perfectly willing to tell folks they know nothing about what they think or believe.

Happens to all tribes, nationalities, races and skin colors literally day in and day out and is the reason we had to ban political discussion on this forum and why we created various dandboxes...

But that is me saying what ibrian thought at the time.
 
IndigoChild5559 said:
A non-Jew does not get to tell Jews what it means to be a Jew or what Judaism teaches.

And no, I'm not interested in changing the topic to whether Europeans get to tell people who are party of tribes that they are bad.
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Well neither am I, of course.

As someone whose culture was almost entirely systematically destroyed by invading tribes, I struggle to see any positives to tribalism myself, but I'm open to being convinced.
 
IndigoChild5559 said:
A non-Jew does not get to tell Jews what it means to be a Jew or what Judaism teaches.
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I wasn't going to address this but I feel I need to.

Firstly, I don't know the background of all the posters on here, maybe you do. Regardless I prefer to focus on the message rather than speculate about the source.

Secondly, everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to express it, especially in a forum specifically designed for discussing opinions.

Thirdly, your statement looks awfully like "only the opinions of my people count", so perhaps you could clarify if this is what you actually meant. I'm keen to avoid misunderstanding.
 
Bloodshot said:
Well neither am I, of course.

As someone whose culture was almost entirely systematically destroyed by invading tribes, I struggle to see any positives to tribalism myself, but I'm open to being convinced.
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Humans form a variety of social groups and societies (IOW their rules for who is part of the group). Tribes, bands, city states, countries... None are good or bad. Rather, they just work or don't work. And they are all likely to see their own group as superior to other groups (us-them mentality), although this sort of judgment is usually based on culture (like are they communist or cannibals or do they sacrifice people to their gods) rather than the organization of their society.

I think you need to reflect on the reality that your culture could just as easily been destroyed by a nation. Russia is trying to wipe out Ukrainian culture. China is trying to wipe out all non-Han cultures--think of the Tibetans or the Uyghurs. Look at what the US did to the Native Americans. I know that what happens to you personally will always carry great weight. But when we make the decision what kinds of societies we accept or oppose, it helps to make a conscious effort to include data we have about other kinds of societies outside our direct experience.
 
Bloodshot said:
everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to express it, especially in a forum specifically designed for discussing opinions.
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You are talking apples and oranges.

Your point addresses the rules for what is allowed in a forum. Most forums allow a lot of free speech up to a point, but draw the line at name calling, overt racism, etc. So you are absolutely right. Interfaith.org isn't going to censor what someone says about who is a Jew. And I SUPPORT that. I don't advocate censorship.

I'm not addressing the free speech versus censorship question. I'm addressing who has the authority and education to voice a VALID opinion on an issue. While he has the right to express his opinion on this forum, his opinion carries no weight. He can express it but it's worthless. He lacks the authority to tell the Jewish People what it means to us to be a Jew. He doesn't have the education to form a reliable opinion on what Judaism does and doesn't teach. It's like someone with a high school diploma saying the earth is flat, or a French citizen telling American who should be able to become an American citizen, or someone who has never studied structural engineering declaring that a bridge is perfectly safe after the engineers have condemned it.
 
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