Karmic Debt/Forgiveness ?

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Dear All

This passage about settling one's accounts screams karma to me what do you think?

Matthew 18:21-35 NIV

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventyseven times.
(this is also in the GT)

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.

25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26 “The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27 The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’

30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.

31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.

33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’

34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

being love

kim xx
  1. Hinduism & Buddhism The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny.
  2. Fate; destiny.
  3. Informal A distinctive aura, atmosphere, or feeling: There's bad karma around the house today.
I can see where if you are Hindu you might see "karma" in certian scriptures

I cant see Karma. I see good sound Biblical teaching to forgive as your Father in heaven forgives.

The same type of teaching that has lead many born into hinduism to Christ and teachings of the Bible thus denouncing karma, Hinduism and the teachings surrounding that religion.

Isn't Jesus wonderful:D
But settling debts is about Karmic debts Basstian

Just like financial debt is negative energy hence why in the bible we ask GOD to forgive us our debts, we are asking him to forgive our negativity/karma. The 30/50/100 fold is another example of that in the positive.

but GOD doesn't mind what we call it.

So all is cool and peace

Where there is a will he always finds a way.

I can just imagine him saying OK they can't get their heads around karma so Jesus we will have to teach them parables instead. The Milk and the Meat shows itself once more 'we reap what we sow' 'cause and effect' which is also karma.

Karma actually means 'action'

being love

Love Kim xx
I see parallelisms to karma and "Living in the Faith", however though the external looks similar (what the world might see), the intent seems different.

Forgiving as the Father Forgives, would be an action intended to please the Father.

Karma, it seems has to do with self, for self's sake.

Anyway, the term "karma" is not part of normal Christian vocabulary, at least not in the spiritual sense. ;)


Horses for courses!

Well only if one sees one self separate from GOD.

If we see ourselves as interweaved in group consciousness with all creation e.g. the field does it not throw a different light upon it Q?

being love

kim xx
But I am separated from God, Sacred. That is why I am here...

One day, I will not be separated from God...

That is what Jesus promised, if I accepted his invitation.

Everything else is a lesson to learn, not karma. ;)


ha ha well AM says we are not here to learn lessons but to have experiences, he describes planet earth as the best Academy in all the Universes. He gave the analogy of the difference between children at school learning lessons and graduates at UNI.

Attending the lectures as a mature student and writing one's own thesis.

I guess one could call that free will.

Blessings in abundance

Kim xx
Free will has always gotten me into trouble. The prodigal son showed free will.
Nope not for me. Not my will /not free will/ but Gods will only for me thanks.

Sacred I just want to say that you wont find any biblcal references to mingling doctrines from other faiths in with Christianity. Grant it it has been done but no bible reference for it.
You will find many "dont do as they do", "flee froms", and "come out of hers". But NO "hey check them all out and be like em."
In its truest form Christianity is a very loving forgiving and welcoming religion but requires change and growth towards God through sound doctrine based on His word.
Repent is one of the very first steps. Asking one to turn from the ways of their past never to look back.

There are so many things to learn from the Hindu in a cultural light and I have a deep respect for their religion. But the fact is I would wish they find Jesus and come to understand the gospel turning away from their faith and ways they have now To a faith in Jesus and Him cruicified this I know is the Way to salvation.

Is that bad Karma???? hehehehe :)

Thank you for your expansive spirit of inquiry, it is truly inspiring to me to know that there are still those who take refuge in God's presence NOW.
Yes, I see many things in that particular scripture aside from a legalistic interpretation have you considered also that in order for us to be able to receive forgiveness, we must allow it for our brother as well. Notice that persons who tend to harbor grudges tend to feel victimized and are often fearful? I think that the minute we begin to let others off the hook we free ourselves as well. As for the idea of karma? Well it is more complicated than a cursory examination of other cultures may reveal. I know that the Dalai Lama once spent six hours teaching about it, and its many levels. Regardless of the semantics and linquistic implications the ideas behind Karma are philosophically sound. I think the problem is one of "level Confusion" more than just a semantical difference.

Psalms 62:5-8
My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from Him.He only is my rock and my salvation: He is my defence; I shall not be moved. In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.Trust in Him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before Him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Its not a legal issue. Its a safety one. We are safe In God.
All this dabbling in other religions and spirits well its just not safe. ;)
Dear Paladin

Thank you for sharing yes I totally agree with all that you have said.

Also sometimes it is just a matter of terms used, beliefs, emphasis and definitions in those terms. In the panoramic view I view divine truth at the very core of all religions. In the true and beautiful essence of the different trees amongst their ethical roots there really isn't much to separate the same inspired word of GOD.

Dear Q

"not my will...but thy will be done"

And so it is GOD is promoting ways for us to build the bridges of peace so that we can be one people, one planet, one heart with GOD, all meeting in the middle on the bridge, for the Grace of GOD go high. But at the same time allowing all to honour their own cultures, religions, history and race but this being secondary because GOD is number ONE with the former being much more important then the latter.

Just like when the Berlin wall came down so will all other walls of separation, brick by brick and what joy that will be like a twinkling of the eye all united in the love of GOD. I have never cried with so much joy, danced with such vigour, sung songs of praise to GOD or been so deeply moved by anything viewed on TV until I witnessed the happiness of the people in that moment of freedom when the wall came down.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would witness that wall come down in my life time, but yet it was probably one the most positive signals of hope for the people that humanity as witnessed for millennia.

People united for a common and higher purpose of no separation.

Love beyond measure

kim xx
Dear Star

You may want to have another look at the defintion provided by CR as to what Christianity is about.

You may mix religions all you want to, but I find it very disrespectful and offensive that you continue DAILY to mix and match your own teaching of religion(s) with that of the bible and keep bringing it into the Christian Forum.

This also goes for the gnosticism, paganism, mysticism and the other little THINGS you dabble in.

From what I can see the defintion provided by CR does include the blood of Jesus for remission of sins which I believe in, and which you deny.

No...Karma is NOT the same thing as forgiveness neither is it the same thing as forgivenss of sin that you can only obtain through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Dear Bandit

I think we have already agreed that the bible holds many inner meanings and reap what one sows is very clear indeed, what comes around goes around would be a modern term for this.

What an amazing and evolved man Jesus was, bearing in mind that science are only now discovering the importance of forgiveness to our own health and well-being. Which is why him teaching us to forgive was so very important to him.

Jesus knew all these things 2,000 years ago.


Love beyond measure

kim xx
no karma is not the same thing because it leaves out the soveriengnty of God and in most cases it leaves out Jesus and forgiveness of sin.
Sorry Sacred but I must disagree with you completely. That passage has nothing to do with karma. It is about forgiviness of sins which only Jesus can do. We can not pay back the debt we have due to sin in as many lifetimes as you or any hindu or anyone else wants to live. Everyday we sin in some form so the debt gets larger and larger and no amount of repayment will ever catch up so what he did was die for us to forgive it basically he paid the whole debt for us.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

The rest of that passage was him trying to get us to realize that if he was able to forgive the biggest debt anyone could ever acrue then we should be able to forgive anything anyone does to us.

Every man is seperate from God. He made it clear sin has no place with him.
Revelation 21:27 "And there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth, neither he that worketh abomination, or maketh a lie, but they who are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
Isaiah 57:15 "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

So we are all seperated from God till we accept that he came to us as Jesus Christ to forgive our debts...the ultimate sign of love.

Sorry to tell you this again but salvation is not a state of conscience or obtainable on your own....all paths lead to the same place and one people one planet all that mumbo jumbo is unbiblical...there are many paths but only 2 destinations...one path leads to salvation all the others lead to condemnation.
No idea what a karma thread is doing in the Christianity forum - this should really have been posted in the Buddhism section.

Anyway, the thread has veered a bit and dealt with some Christian ideas here, so probably best to simply close it, rather than redirect it.

If the question is raised again, then it should be done so in the Buddhism section, where the actual complexities of Karma as a topic can be more properly addressed. :)
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