What is the future of Christianity?

enton

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sasa said:
Is there any future of Christianity at all? The teachings of Christianity were limited to the people of that time. Jesus said "if you are slapped on one side of your face, offer the other side of the face too." This teaching certainly is not applicable in today's society. Isn't it enough to prove that the teachings were limited to that certain time period?
So can the Christian world survive just by acting on the teachings of Christianity at all?

The christian world can survive even unto eternity, just by acting on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

If you are slapped on the other side of your face, offer the other side of the face too. (assuming that you can't escape the slapping)

Nevertheless, if you knew there is someone intending to slap you, why not escape? It's not a sin to escape from anyone who wants to harm you!!!
 

taijasi

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enton said:
The christian world can survive even unto eternity, just by acting on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

If you are slapped on the other side of your face, offer the other side of the face too. (assuming that you can't escape the slapping)

Nevertheless, if you knew there is someone intending to slap you, why not escape? It's not a sin to escape from anyone who wants to harm you!!!
Yes, I think Q (Quahom) could comment on this. In short, it didn't mean that we shouldn't defend ourselves. I have little doubt, personally, that Jesus of Nazareth could most likely have a laid a man flat if he'd really wanted to. Basic martial arts, or self-defense, was probably something he was familiar with. Some might wonder about that, but I think it's likely. Then again, he could also certainly have simply snapped his fingers and watched entire armies disappear, or fall over incapacitated. Some may think, "oh yeah right" ... but then, this isn't the point. As you say, enton, it wouldn't make sense just to stand there and be someone's punching bag.

"Turn the other cheek" goes much deeper than that. It hints at the ethic, the principles, which - if practiced - would allow the Christian religion to change and evolve with the times, and conceivably thrive ... indefinitely! :)

Love and Light,

taijasi
 

AletheiaRivers

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sasa said:
So that makes it quite contradictory. on one instance, the self defence is allowed and on the other instance it is advised to offer your other cheek as well.

A slap isn't an attack that requires self defense. It's an insult.
 

Quahom1

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taijasi said:
Yes, I think Q (Quahom) could comment on this. In short, it didn't mean that we shouldn't defend ourselves. I have little doubt, personally, that Jesus of Nazareth could most likely have a laid a man flat if he'd really wanted to. Basic martial arts, or self-defense, was probably something he was familiar with. Some might wonder about that, but I think it's likely. Then again, he could also certainly have simply snapped his fingers and watched entire armies disappear, or fall over incapacitated. Some may think, "oh yeah right" ... but then, this isn't the point. As you say, enton, it wouldn't make sense just to stand there and be someone's punching bag.

"Turn the other cheek" goes much deeper than that. It hints at the ethic, the principles, which - if practiced - would allow the Christian religion to change and evolve with the times, and conceivably thrive ... indefinitely! :)

Love and Light,

taijasi

If the story of Jesus upsetting the merchant's market in the Temple has any merit, then Jesus was one strong man, to be certain. Some of those tables and stands weighed in at over 600 lbs, not to mention the fat entrepeneurs He sent flying on their ears...

And Alethea makes a good point. A slap is an insult, not an assault. Of course if it my mother doing the slapping, it is a wake up call to reality...:eek: :D

I personally think Jesus was teaching us how to dis-arm a potential adversary, by getting him to stop and think. He takes your coat, you offer your shirt as well...huh? He makes you walk a mile with him, you offer to go an extra mile after that...huh? He slaps your face, you turn your other cheek to him instead of sqaring off looking him eye to eye...huh? You aren't afraid of him obviously, but then neither are you antagonistic towards his actions. Neither are you trying to cause him fear. (no aggression).

Now, on the other hand, if one gets slapped, once, then twice, and the aggressor is going for a third time because he is enjoying it, then you put the fear of God in him by catching his arm mid slap, or catching his fist in the palm of your hand, and simply holding it there, mid air. Better yet, simply roll with it a little faster than he is moving, so that he ends up off balance and swatting the wind (Aikido).

My philosophy is the only time we should ever get negatively physical with someone is out of necessity, not emotion, and then it isn't a game, but a means to put an end to unacceptable actions; "Minimum level of force" to neutralize a situation that is unhealthy for all parties concerned. That could be a word, or a stance, not neccessarily physical contact. It could be simply walking away.

v/r

Q

p.s. thanks for the invite Taij
 

wil

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Quahom1 said:
If the story of Jesus upsetting the merchant's market in the Temple has any merit, then Jesus was one strong man, to be certain. Some of those tables and stands weighed in at over 600 lbs, not to mention the fat entrepeneurs He sent flying on their ears.......I personally think Jesus was teaching us how to dis-arm a potential adversary, by getting him to stop and think. He takes your coat, you offer your shirt as well...huh? He makes you walk a mile with him, you offer to go an extra mile after that...huh?
If one doesn't remember the take on this in Dan Millman's book The way of the peaceful warrior, get out there and see his movie starring Nick Nolte, Peaceful Warrior is in theaters now, and is awesome.

I think in the Warrior Messiah it utilized the table turning episode as evidence of the army that traveled with Jesus...one wouldn't be turning over the tables of the money changers without some backup...
 

wil

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Abogado del Diablo said:
There's no such thing as a "Christian-dominated country" if you define Christianity as adherence to the teachings of Jesus. "Christian-dominated" is an oxymoron.
wheee...that makes most of the christian world non christian...and most of the christian past non christian...could be apropo...in a discussion at church recently we were discussing how to honor our past...
 

Quahom1

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wil said:
wheee...that makes most of the christian world non christian...and most of the christian past non christian...could be apropo...in a discussion at church recently we were discussing how to honor our past...

Not funny. In reality America is not dominated by any religion (by law and by enforcement), unless you want to consider Liberalism a religion...then we have a state religion, a dominating one, and a destructive force, we can ill afford at this point in time...

The main theme of course is "No God, No Master", except for the rulers who adhere to this way of thinking...they of course are the "master"...:eek: it is their religion after all, and they are 'ruling' the country...lol, right.

v/r

Q
 

wil

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Quahom1 said:
Not funny.
I absolutely agree, not funny...but with 86% of US Christian, that puts most of those making decisions, and most of those out there fighting and killing being Christian. Say what we may, we didn't demand a trial or tribunal for Osama or Sadam even in absentia, we didn't have the world court pass judgement...we tried and convicted ourselves and headed out on a witch hunt, picked up a gun and went over there..and whoever got in our way. I agree it isn't funny. And being Christian doesn't absent you from war in this country...hmmm Quaker, and Muslim did at one time...
 

enton

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taijasi said:
Yes, I think Q (Quahom) could comment on this. In short, it didn't mean that we shouldn't defend ourselves. I have little doubt, personally, that Jesus of Nazareth could most likely have a laid a man flat if he'd really wanted to. Basic martial arts, or self-defense, was probably something he was familiar with. Some might wonder about that, but I think it's likely. Then again, he could also certainly have simply snapped his fingers and watched entire armies disappear, or fall over incapacitated. Some may think, "oh yeah right" ... but then, this isn't the point. As you say, enton, it wouldn't make sense just to stand there and be someone's punching bag.

"Turn the other cheek" goes much deeper than that. It hints at the ethic, the principles, which - if practiced - would allow the Christian religion to change and evolve with the times, and conceivably thrive ... indefinitely! :)

Love and Light,

taijasi
Actually I am not yet finished with this topic! Let us read Psalms:

Psalms 38:20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

I hope those three above suffice the topic. If I were slapped because someone is hurt by the words I speak (the biblical words), so be it. In fact, I will offer my other cheek to prove I am a christian. The fight of the christians is this:

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Before Paul became a christian, he approved the murder of saints, but when he was called by God, he had no record of murder anymore. So, basically, as former member of the jewish religion, Saul of Tarsus (henceforth known as St. Paul) had been a persecutor of the church of God.

I wonder why other readers of the Bible refer to, Luke 19:27 (But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.) as ground for freedom to kill (because of the word "slay"). You can never read in the entire Gospels about Jesus Christ stabbing
anyone, but you can read Christ forbidding Peter when Peter hit the ear of a certain soldier.
 

Quahom1

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wil said:
I absolutely agree, not funny...but with 86% of US Christian, that puts most of those making decisions, and most of those out there fighting and killing being Christian. Say what we may, we didn't demand a trial or tribunal for Osama or Sadam even in absentia, we didn't have the world court pass judgement...we tried and convicted ourselves and headed out on a witch hunt, picked up a gun and went over there..and whoever got in our way. I agree it isn't funny. And being Christian doesn't absent you from war in this country...hmmm Quaker, and Muslim did at one time...

If I were injured on Warren Avenue in Dearborn, Michigan, who do you think would come to my aid? The local Arab/Muslims that dominate the area?, or the 70 year old Polish Christian man who could barely walk himself? Answer: the Christian (actual event). But when three cars collided at the corner of Warren and Middlepointe (and all victims were Arab/Muslims), who do you think swarmed the scene and began yelling, but doing nothing? And who do you think said "get out of the way if you aren't going to help"? And who do you think started a mini riot against those that were trying to help, because they were "infidels"?

I'll leave you to figure that one out.

As I've stated before, this isn't a game we are playing. This is for keeps. And you have got it all backwards, it isn't Christians doing most of the killing. Christians are trying to keep the peace, on "behalf" of those doing most of the killing.

I suppose the 500 cannisters of Nerve agent discovered so far means little to you as well. Buried so deep in the sand it was by pure happenstance that it was found at all...and I suppose Christians killed all those people in Bali a couple of days ago. And I suppose it was Christians that shot at me in the Philipines 15 years ago, because what...I was a foreigner in their country? No, because I was an opportunity for Muslim radicals to try and make an example of (damn, I wasn't even armed or in uniform).

I Suppose it was Christians that launched dozens of missles into Israel from Lebenon these past few days, and Christians that declared all out war. Even the UN and the surrounding Muslim countries have condemned the attacks by Hezbhola. No one is condemning Israel for their response.

Can't we all just get along? Obviously not.

Grow up and smell the dung...

You know what? You are correct. America is far far from perfect. And Christians have problems all their own. But as far as who is worse and who is better? Like the song says "I'll take that bet and you're going to regret 'cause we're the best that's ever been."

Q
 

wil

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What is the future of Christianity.

I think it has a bright future, but like the Imans and Clerics that need to stand up and say...This is not Islam, this Al Queda is preaching a virulence and violence that is not Islam....Christians need to determine whether they are to stand up and decide to follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

We have never tried Peace, not in thousands of years. We have never tried to understand the nuances and beliefs of another society so as to establish win win propositions. We (the US) has used the theory our enemy's enemy is our friend and will work with and arm anyone, who currently suits are needs despite long range reprucssions. Sadam and Osama are perfect examples of that. And those 500 canisters, we knew about them because we approved the sale! (hence they only made news for a short blurp).

Tis business as usual in the CIA and the Pentagon, war machine and world domination back in full swing. The English Empire is no more, the Roman Empire did not recover from its collapse, the Almighty Greenback Empire is fighting in its struggle as a dying society.
 

17th Angel

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Have you seen the little piggies crawling in the d
*gets ready to be attacked.*
*loads shotgun*

My opinion, my thoughts, I believe the furutre of christianity is mere destruction... It hasn't be around as long as any other religions (well exlcuding islam.) But it is just an "end of the world" cult to me... Finally one day that ghost will be given up when they realise the end just isn't coming.... And if it does come it wouldn't be how foretold in the bible it will either be man ending it by war, sun burning out, hit by comets or whatever lol..... But every era since the supposed death of jesus has been said to be the end of things.... The prohpechies (sp) are so bland and so common that it always happens... Diesease, earth quakes, violence, hatred and so on... look around these things have always been here and always will...
 

Saltmeister

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wil said:
What is the future of Christianity.

I think it has a bright future, but like the Imans and Clerics that need to stand up and say...This is not Islam, this Al Queda is preaching a virulence and violence that is not Islam....Christians need to determine whether they are to stand up and decide to follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

Maybe we should all stand up against the politicians that are distorting the picture of Christianity. Maybe we should shout down and boo (with thumbs down) all the loud-mouths of Christianity.:)

Or maybe we should just be silent and not say a word. Sometimes it's better to say nothing. Talking too much can sure cause trouble. No, not trouble. REAL BIG TROUBLE. (Pardon me there, sorry, getting excited!!!!) Maybe the true Christians out there are the ones that shut up. If I remember correctly, there was a saying that when your mouth is talking (a lot), you're not learning anything. (Except on CR when views can be posted.)

But how will Christianity be spread and taught? No sweat. Just discuss it behind closed doors.:confused:

That kind of Christianity would be a lot more purer, more personal, more authentic, more sincere, which is a lot better than babbling on television, in press conferences and hollering and yahooing in the streets with banners against abortion clinics and stem-cell research.:D

Let's agree to be more honest, polite, respectable, dignified and sincere about our Christianity.:)

Perhaps the "True Christianity" is the "quiet Christianity" :)confused:) as opposed to the "loud Christianity" :)mad:).

Christianity doesn't have to be popular or widely heard. It just needs to be more . . . personal? private? sincere? sentimental?

Perhaps Christianity should become a secret society (but not a cult) for specially devoted and dedicated people who are sincere in what they want from it. Kept and preserved in secret for those who will keep it sacred and respect its meaning. Like an artifact of the ancients. Buried underground like treasure. Precious.

Maybe mainstream society needs to forget about Christianity for a while, to be preserved, buried and hidden by a secret society so that in the coming centuries, people will rediscover Christianity again, but this time for what it truly is, not distorted by today's dirty "Christian politics" and loud-mouth influentials.

Maybe we just need to be humble and admit that we don't have the authority to authorise wars and change laws and the legal system. We simply have a personal relationship with God. That authority is not real. It is arrogance and self-righteousness. Humility is a higher virtue than arrogance and self-righteousness. Yet today's "Christian politicians" don't get it. Whoever is first in this world will be last in God's kingdom.
 

BlaznFattyz

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My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.

ultimately, the future of the followers of christ is eternity with god.
 

wil

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Namaste Saltmiester, some interesting points to ponder.

I still think Chistianity should be spread by example. Be love, be compassion, be grace, be in the image...

folks will ask how you can stay calm in the storm, and you tell them

folks will ask why do you offer your help, and you tell them

but me, I'm the radical...
 

juantoo3

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Kindest Regards, Saltmeister!

Perhaps Christianity should become a secret society (but not a cult) for specially devoted and dedicated people who are sincere in what they want from it. Kept and preserved in secret for those who will keep it sacred and respect its meaning. Like an artifact of the ancients. Buried underground like treasure. Precious.
Hmmm...sounds like the Freemasons to me.

Perhaps the "True Christianity" is the "quiet Christianity" as opposed to the "loud Christianity".
Perhaps. Perhaps not. I have heard it said (from a source outside of Christianity) that there is no such thing as good or evil, only passive and active. Active overrides passive.

There is a "common" train of thought that leads people to believe volume equals correctness...which upon further inspection is pretty obviously not the case. How often have I seen the Millsian Utilitarian philosophy proudly trumpeted on pretty much every board here? "The greatest good for the most people!" Has anybody who has "blindly" made that exclamation ever took notice of what it entails?

I find an irony, in people who advocate such fundamentalist democracy, often find themselves in the fray supporting the "rights" of minority groups. Gay marriage comes immediately to mind. By Utilitarian ethics, that puppy should have been laid to rest long ago. The greastest good for the most people has already spoken, multiple times, that they do not want this. Yet, the gay marriage issue persists, often promoted by some of the same people who blindly advocate a Utilitarian ethos. Yes, I do find that ironic.

Mills' Utilitarianism is the rationale used to entertain, and ultimately approve, the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The greatest good for the most people.

"The greatest good for the most people" means the lesser people will pay, perhaps dearly, for going against the grain. "The greatest good for the most people" sounds wonderful, as long as you are personally one of the most people. What if you are one of the lesser people? This is not rhetorical, this is a sincere question to anyone.

"The greatest good for the most people" is fundamentally flawed, because everyone, at some point in their life, in some aspect of their life, will find themselves outside of the "greatest good." That's life. Utilitarianism does not allow for mercy, for mercy's sake. It does not allow for tolerance of "lesser good" or "lesser people." It does not allow for forgiveness. It is a humanist response, not a Christian one, despite the pleas I hear from Christians to use that philosophy. Which shows once again that labels are at best a means of reference, but are by no means exclusive in application. BTW, there may be humanists that do not promote Mills' Utilitarianism, but frankly I have yet to meet one. Seems the first "lesser" people on the list to be done away with, according to them, is the Christians...
 

juantoo3

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Kindest Regards, wil!
I still think Chistianity should be spread by example. Be love, be compassion, be grace, be in the image...

folks will ask how you can stay calm in the storm, and you tell them

folks will ask why do you offer your help, and you tell them

but me, I'm the radical...
*Gulp*...if you're "the radical," and I've been saying the exact same thing you say here in different words for years, what does that make me???

Hee-hee-hee-hee :D
 

Quahom1

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Kindest Regards, wil!

*Gulp*...if you're "the radical," and I've been saying the exact same thing you say here in different words for years, what does that make me???

Hee-hee-hee-hee :D

tweedle dom?...:eek: :rolleyes: :)
 

cyberpi

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I still think Chistianity should be spread by example. Be love, be compassion, be grace, be in the image...
I think a belief is spread via Faith. Not just believing, but doing per the will of another.

There was a show awhile back on PBS where a science teacher said something like, "If I hear it I might not believe it, and if I read it I might forget it, but if I do it... then I know it."

I think that is similar to what you said.
 
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