Christian Pilgrim

Postmaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,312
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Has anyone been to the holy lands to visit the churches, places and tombs of Christianity? I went when I was 15 by a cruise from Cyprus just before the troubles started again, it was an amazing experience. Does anyone believe that if your fit and healthy and have the ability to travel that it makes you a better Christian if you visit the holy lands on a religious pilgrim? Out of all fairness visiting Israel at the time you could literally feel the tension in the air. When we were visiting the Wailing Wall, I went up to the wall to have a good look and someone with a machine gun told me to back off in Hebrew.. I had no problem, it must have seemed obvious I didn't belong there. Whilst walking round and visiting some of the important sites, you are almost constantly pestered to buy tourist goods, anything from fake perfumes to drums... It was a great experience however its a shame to think that one of the holiest places for many faiths is only one of the greatest conflict areas. Is that what religion is all about?
 
I do not believe it makes you a "better" Christian but it sure does make you blessed to be able to visit those places. I have a question though.. Amongst all the hostilities and tense feelings and merchants attempts at fleecing the flock did you feel the Spirit of God there? Thats what I would be hoping to feel as I visited biblical places.
 
Actually to be honest, I didn't feel at all peaceful or feel the spirit of God, you can smell fear where ever you went, it's true but I was more glad to carry on the next phase of the trip into Egypt, where ever we went we had to have an armed solider with us and everyones bags were thoroughly searched by the Isrealis regardless where you were coming from, they had some pretty serious policies. The holy lands have been a place of conflict for thousands of years and that could be a reason why Christ came from there, not only that Israel is the only place in the world where 3 continents meet, so as a location chosen by God it was perfect. It just goes to show how religion and politics get confused or are they different shades of the same colour?
 
How interesting people's views differ on the same thought, or place. I spent two weeks in Israel, rebuilding damaged appartments, or laying irrigation pipe in the fields of a Kibutz, or fininshing tuck and point work in the new mortar holding up old stone walls. I worked side by side with "armed Israeli soldiers" and citizens. There were people of all walks and faiths of life.

There was no sense of fear at all, but there was a sublime yet keen awareness of what was going on around us. It was a state of alertness rarely seen in the states or most other places I've been on earth.

The people around us wealthy or not so wealthy were cordial, polite and friendly. The children were delightful in their play and wonder of us "strangers".

And there was a sublte energy everywhere, that whispered "Holy land".

The days were hot and sweaty, but the nights were balmy and light.

Yes, quite interesting how the same picture is veiwed differently by different people.

v/r

Q
 
It could be a case of different views or it could be that it was because I was there 5 years ago..?
 
Postmaster said:
It could be a case of different views or it could be that it was because I was there 5 years ago..?
LOL So was I...:D

v/r

Q
 
our church used to do a trip every year to Israel, but it stopped with all the koo koo going on. it was neat when they would bring back a wooden camel or something for the entire congregation.

i would like to go someday, but heaven will suffice if i dont make it there.
 
wooden camel
I bought back one of those!

But as Christinians were suppose to point out the evils of societies, frankly the holy lands is no place of sugar and creme.
 
quahom1 said:
Yes, quite interesting how the same picture is veiwed differently by different people
q you are in the military yes? and perhaps were there in a military capacity? these are just guesses, or assumptions, and we know what they say about assumptions, so correct me if i'm wrong because i know nothing about you. but if you were there in a military capacity, it is no surprise to me that you would get a completely different vibe than a 15 year old 'kid' (no disrespect postmaster.) i know that since joining the military, my perception of a lot of things are night and day compared to what they were when i was a missionary kid in japan. and we know perception is reality right q? :p
it is very interesting though isn't it...the difference in perceptions. so much affects the way we see the world that no two views are ever quite the same. police eye-witnesses viewing different numbers of assailants wearing different clothing waving different weapons...
this re-affirms my faith in the bible. the gospels for example written by different men in different times and different places, yet they all tell the same story. from different views yes, but the story remains the same. what a miracle!

postmaster said:
Does anyone believe that if your fit and healthy and have the ability to travel that it makes you a better Christian if you visit the holy lands on a religious pilgrim?
i agree with faithfulservent. i do not believe that it makes you better in the sense that you should be lifted above those who do not make a pilgrimage, however i do believe that it makes you better in a personal sense, makes you more complete maybe than you were, more humble than you were, more apreciative than you were, etc.
 
Welcome JonMarc,

Yes, USCG. I was there for Comrels. Worked during the day and relaxed at night. Took a day to see the sights but mostly rebuilding and construction, in the less wealthier areas. Pulled into your neck of the woods a few times as well. ;)

And perception is reality, even if incorrect...

v/r

Q
 
thank you for the welcome

just saw some coast guard guys around the other day. i have some ol' buddies in the coast guard that i met about 7 years ago when i lived in costa rica. wonder what they're up to... anyway. i really haven't done much searching, but it's nice to find a place like this online where opinions can be shared in such an open environment. if we could find more places like this in the 'real' world as well we'd be heading in a good direction. what you all are doing here is important and very commendable.

relating to the thread, i have a friend who went to school with me in japan who is from israel and i am dying to get over there to visit her and see the things i feel i should see. hopefully while i'm here in spain i'll get to do so. it is great you got an opportunity to do some good and explore some for yourself. it's always comforting to find people like you in the forces q!
 
Hi, JonMarc--Peace to you and all here--

Were you a "missionary kid"? Forgive me for not having enough time to decipher everything in the thread. I am also wondering--if it is okay--were you a "military brat"? (Please, if that is now politically incorrect, I apologize--but I believe the sons and daughters of military folk will probably forgive me--if not, I will take my punishment).

I am just wondering, and not without reason.

Oh, and welcome to CR.:)

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove,
i appreciate your welcome, and have enjoyed reading many of your posts on these forums. to answer your questions, i was in fact a missionary kid, or mk. and no i was not a military brat, although i think that is still the going term for it. regardless, no harm no foul ;). my parents were both missionary kids who grew up in japan, and when i was about 7 years old we moved to japan and they become southern baptist missionaries. they've since left the mission but continue in their ministry in japan. although i love southern california and will likely live out many of my years there, i still call japan home.
 
JonMarc said:
InLove,
i appreciate your welcome, and have enjoyed reading many of your posts on these forums. to answer your questions, i was in fact a missionary kid, or mk. and no i was not a military brat, although i think that is still the going term for it. regardless, no harm no foul ;). my parents were both missionary kids who grew up in japan, and when i was about 7 years old we moved to japan and they become southern baptist missionaries. they've since left the mission but continue in their ministry in japan. although i love southern california and will likely live out many of my years there, i still call japan home.
InLove thinks we sound like brothers...not far off eh? ;)

v/r

Q
 
Hi Guys--

Hmmmm....well....

Truthfully, I see the brotherhood there between you, Q and jm. but more in shared experience and spirit than anything. Is that what you mean?

Ummm...there is, however, another poster here in CR, Q, that I suspect you know fairly well...;) ? Just guessing.

I have a friend here, also, and we have fun dropping hints here and there.

Anyway, jm, the reason I asked about your background is because I grew up with a very close friend whose family was both in the military and in the ministry--and the family had indeed spent a lot of time in Japan. I have lost touch with that family over the years, so I guess I was kind of curious. Did you say your family had done mission work in or around Tokyo? I thought you said that, but I can't find it right now.

I've got to get back to work--this forum is beautifully distracting at times! (Oh, and I do apologize--I am terrible about derailing threads--nudges Q.)

InPeace,
InLove
 
In the spirit of Hogan's Heroes..." I know nothing, nothing, nothing!"


:D

v/r

Q
 
InLove said:
Hi Guys--
...Truthfully, I see the brotherhood there between you, Q and jm. but more in shared experience and spirit than anything. Is that what you mean?...
it's amazing not only the connections, but also the evidence of those connections present in something as seemingly impersonal as forum posts, isn't it? although these aren't your typical forum threads...

...Anyway, jm, the reason I asked about your background is because I grew up with a very close friend whose family was both in the military and in the ministry--and the family had indeed spent a lot of time in Japan. I have lost touch with that family over the years, so I guess I was kind of curious. Did you say your family had done mission work in or around Tokyo?...
the church that my parents started was in west tokyo, where i spent most of my years, but much of their ministry outside of the church has been focused more in the downtown tokyo area. so yes, they have done mission work in and around tokyo. haha. in fact i would not be surprised if my parents have at least heard of the friends you speak of. the mission world in tokyo, and japan as a whole, is a small world indeed. something about being a minority as a foreigner, or as they say in japanese, gaijin, and an even greater minority as a christian foreigner, draws people together a good deal. so does being a minority (do you think?) on the internet, apparently. :)
 
JonMarc, I was really struck by the fact that your parents were both missionary kids in Japan - obviously it made such a huge impression on them that they both decided to continue their parents' work. I only know one person who was a missionary kid, in Africa (I forget where specifically), and partly as a result of what she saw there, she left the church as an adult. I'm curious as to whether your parents met in Japan, or whether they both returned to the States (?) and then met and said, "Hey, whaddya know..." Absolutely none of my business, really, I know, but I find it an interesting thought.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, I haven't made a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, but six years ago I went to Santiago de Compostela, Spain, and visited the supposed tomb of St. James the Greater. I'm not a Christian, and wasn't then, and when I was Christian I wasn't Catholic, but it was still a hugely intense religious experience. Not least because of all the tiny villages I passed through on the way, with tiny churches, which were just gorgeous. No matter how poor these villagers were, having a beautiful church was still important to them because their faith was so intense, and that could really be felt there.

Compostela really wasn't too bad as far as commercialism went. There was an official souvenir shop where you also got your certification, but they only sold sweatshirts and small religious medallions, and a few things for children. For the rest it was just two or three postcard-and-rosary carts. And that was in a jubilee year. The cathedral was huge and had gold everywhere. I'd always disapproved of that, thinking the money could better be used to feed and clothe poor parishioners, but after spending two and a half months in deprivation (by Western standards), walking six to eight hours a day and carrying all my posessions on my back, I was more than ready for some pomp and glamour - it made it worth the walk, in a way.:)

However, I had stopped for a side trip to Lourdes, and that was disappointing. It was horrendously commercial - there is even a little tourist train that takes you around to see the sights. There are souvenir shops all over the place, each with a screaming proprietor. You can buy plastic five-gallon jugs imprinted with drawings of Bernadette and the Lady, which you can fill up with water from the spring, and giant glow-in-the-dark rosaries with beads as big as my two fists, and ball-point pens that when you tilt them send a line of tourists into the grotto. The whole thing looked like DisneyLourdes. The underground church was beautiful - it had about twenty giant banners hung from the ceiling, with the Lord's Prayer printed in as many different languages, and the grotto itself was very moving. I wished they hadn't put a statue of the Lady there where she'd appeared - I would rather have been able to imagine it for myself - but I know some people like things to be more concrete.

In any case, all in all the whole experience was incredibly moving and spiritually enriching, and I hope I get the chance to do it again. I haven't really thought about whether I would want to go to the Holy Land.
 
Scarlet Pimpernel said:
...JonMarc, I was really struck by the fact that your parents were both missionary kids in Japan...
SP.... do you mind if i call you that? haha... growing up with a name like JonMarc i was often reduced to a JM instead... now it's sort of a habit for me. moving on...my parents met in japan. they both moved there when they were 3 or 4. my grandparents had cabins very near each other up in the mountains. there is a community up there called the Nojiri Lake Association made up of mostly non-japanese christian families. well it used to be almost all christian missionaries of one denomination or another, that has changed a lot since i was a child though. anyway. they became good friends up there. like i said, the christian mission field in japan is a small world. everybody knows everybody. one of the things i respect most about my parents, especially my father, being a pastor and a paid missionary, was the way that they never shoved their faith down my throat. until around middle school i went to church with them. then they said any christian church you would like to go to you can, so long as you go to church on sunday. then it was more of a "we'd like you to go, but won't force you" kind of deal. i admire them greatly for being able to treat me an my sister as children, vice part of the congregation. something i've seen many people have trouble with.
relating to the rest of your post, that was a very interesting story! i had a similar experience when i was living in costa rica. one day a year everyone (as far as i could tell) walks up into the mountains to a specific church. i cannot for the life of me remember the significance of the church now, but i will not forget the walk. i was heading back to my costa rican family's house after playing some pool downtown, when i noticed hundreds of people walking up a central street carying torches and carrying on quite a bit. not having been told about the tradition, i was a bit scared at first. then someone walking by me took my hand and started pulling me toward the street. i did not know them, but followed just the same. and then i walked...
that night was crazy. the people i met, the atmosphere, the togetherness that the crowd exuded was incredible. for me it wasn't about making a religious pilgrimage, it was about the people. it was amazing just the same though.
 
Back
Top