Arent atheists at risk?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by nomanshake, Jun 18, 2005.

  1. nomanshake

    nomanshake Well-Known Member

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    Well when I think of atheists at times they do make sense.. but cmon how can they be so sure that there's no God or the concept of heaven or hell? what if tomorrow God does exist, why do they want to pay off? why take the risk?
     
  2. Saponification

    Saponification Happiness to all

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    What if God does not exist? You can't be sure either way. What if some other theory is correct? What if a God different to your chosen God exists?

    And I don't believe in Heaven and Hell. Samsara, baby. To me that's a lot scarier.
     
  3. nomanshake

    nomanshake Well-Known Member

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    Well there's one God, so my God is not different, it's all about asking him to forgive your sins, and fulfilling the responsibilities of life, however so many differnt religions in the world is one way that makes me think like an agnostic..
    but removing the concept of God and praying (asking for forgiveness and thanking him) is not gonna make any difference to your life? does it ? being an atheist is not going to bring something extraordinary to your life..
     
  4. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    I'm sure an atheist might suggest that the extraordinary thing is rationalism and freethinking. But perhaps it's more a focus on different flavours of thought, if you see what I mean. After all, as Saponification rightly points out, there are apparently many competing interpretions of what God is and may be. Therefore which version of God does an Atheist need to be concerned about? And if the world's religions cannot apparently agree on what version of God is most correct, then does this not also bode on the limitations of God?

    Sorry to have to try and speak for the Atheist position - hopefully one will speak up soon enough. :)
     
  5. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    I would probably make a good theist and to be honest I would be happy and preferre being one. But things I've experienced during my life have made me certain that God exists... If God is everything then he will appear to people in different ways. Even the Atheists, from my research the atheist Cynics were even responsible for the spread and philosophy of Christianity. You don't even have to acknowledge God to be part of him or even help. Human nature is dominantly positive.



    Why do you think Christianity is opposed to wealth? Why does Christianity focus on evil and the Devil this is comparable to the Cynics criticism of social morals and negatives in society. The Cynics paved the way for Christ, Greece was the first Christianised country in the world, this would have never happened if it was not for the philosophy of Cynicism and also what influenced many of the New Testament Characters in the first place. God is in everyone even the atheists.


     
  6. nomanshake

    nomanshake Well-Known Member

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    here's my another thought:

    1- Suppose ure an atheist, tomorrow if there's no God, and you are right, and atheist dont believe in life after death (most of them), then ure not gonna get heaven either.\

    2- Suppose ure an atheist, and u dont belive in God, and God exists , then ure gonna go to hell or suffer any other God's natures punishment?

    So that makes it clear, atheists are at risk!!
     
  7. brucegdc

    brucegdc Moderator

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    Pascal's wager yet again :) It tends to crop up in these discussions...

    Here's a translation of the original version:
    (taken from http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pascal.html - which is an atheist writing on his background & beliefs - quite fascinating).

    The flaw in the argument that Mr. Tobin points out (and rightly, I think) is that it's not a Door 1 or Door 2 wager - belief in one version of God vs disbelief. The atheist can argue "It would be a good bet to believe in God - but which? Hindu? Catholic? Protestant? Islamic? Wiccan? Asatru? - and which version?" - and most of those have the claim that the others are wrong, and then thus, since there are close to an infinite number of options, therefore the "playing the odds" does not improve the chance of winning at all.

    The website link above has detailed arguments for atheism - from an ex-believer.
     
  8. Saponification

    Saponification Happiness to all

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    Suppose you're a Christian and tomorrow you die. Allah's little cronies ask if you're a Muslim. You say, "Uh..." Allah says, "No, he wasn't." The little cronies take you to a window that lets you get a glimpse at Paradise and them you're damned for all eternity... or at least until the whole end of the world thing.
     
  9. littlemissattitude

    littlemissattitude Creative Thinker

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    I've always had a suspicion that people worry about the repercussions of not believing in God more than God does, if God does indeed exist. We humans are very good at giving our own attributes to plants, animals, cars, and even to God. We are also very good at trying to tell God what he/she/it thinks and can do. I just cannot picture as all-encompassing entity as the God of monotheists being so petty as to penalize people for not "beleiving in" him/her/it.
     
  10. Saponification

    Saponification Happiness to all

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    Agreed.
     
  11. Jaiket

    Jaiket Token Atheist

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    I'm an atheist and I feel particularly risk free.

    I'm often told by followers of the biblical god (I presume that is the one in question) that he (always a 'he' it seems) has a plan for us all. I'm sure this all-powerful, all-knowing fellow has a place for me and all other atheists in his plan, regardless of whether we see reason to believe it or not.
     
  12. Mainecross

    Mainecross New Member

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    None of us live risk-free, but the atheist faces the very gravest of risks if his/her choice of what to believe is wrong because he/she is not just wagering his/her meager life on this earth, but his/her eternal self. If God exists, we can be sure that He makes the rules. If He makes the rules, He must have found a way to promulgate them.
    The Christian Bible appears to be the way those rules have been made plain to people. It also clearly states that those who do not choose to believe [in the Christ] despite the evidence will suffer “eternal damnation”, which sounds like a really big risk to me even if I cannot fully understand "eternal"- I know it's more than the 70 to 80 years we might expect here.






     
  13. Jaiket

    Jaiket Token Atheist

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    Please, feel free to enligten me regarding the evidence. There is in fact a thread for that purpose.
     
  14. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    I think this thread just went full circle. :)
     
  15. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    I'm a theist, and I still think that trying to avoid hell is a lousy reason for becoming one. Sorry, I'm feeling blunt today.

    Real faith doesn't spring from some faint-hearted and poorly reasoned attempt to avoid hell by appeasing God through claiming to believe in something you've never experienced and showing up at a church on Sunday. That isn't real faith- it's going through the motions, and with selfish motives.

    You can't force real faith in God by reasoning that "Church is better than hell." The minister last week at church actually saw a bumper sticker that said this (with a church name mentioned! :eek: ) and commented that lots of things are better than hell- including root canals. We should worship God for a better reason than that- the positive changes wrought in our lives, the gift of life and love He's given us.

    Some people are agnostic- they're seeking God, but don't feel like they've experienced Him yet. I don't think this seeking process is bad, or that they should blindly rush into a church or religion. Good things come out of the seeking process- "Seek and you shall find." Others are atheist, and currently believe God doesn't exist- so the message about hell is a non-issue for them (as are folks who do believe in God and/or have a religion, but it doesn't include a belief in hell). I don't think hedging your bets by "going along" with the belief-in-God-thing makes any difference to people's salvation- God knows people's hearts, their true thoughts and feelings. And people can't force themselves to believe in something they don't.

    In my opinion, it is better to share love with everyone of every religion (and non-religion). At worst, you make people's lives better. At best, they wonder where that love came from, and perhaps come to their own experience of the Love from which all love springs- God.
     
  16. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Known Member

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    path_of_one you say you’re an theist, but would you agree that there is a mystical environment that we can't easily comprehend? Even if science can't prove?
     
  17. believer142

    believer142 Member

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    9 out of 10 people in the world believe in one God whether their jewish, muslim, or christian. So for you to say that there are many different perceptions of God, there is, but there is also one major perception. This is the perception most commonly argued by atheists. As a theist i am taking no risks. whether he exists or not, i wont receieve any punishments but will be greatly awarded if he does. If i were an atheist and he does exist, i will be seperated froim my creator for all eternity with overwhelming regret. I believe that god wants us to search our hearts. If there were subtantial proof of his existence, then we would believe in him because of obligation not love.
     
  18. Saponification

    Saponification Happiness to all

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    Actually, you are taking a risk. What if a different idea of God is correct? What about samsara? Simply believing in God is not enough to save you from coming back again and again and again...

    A lot of religions acknowledge the idea of coming back again and again until liberation. In fact, more religions acknowledge samsara than that one, almighty God.
     
  19. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    Of course. Maybe there's a misunderstanding- I said I'm a theist- as in, I believe in God. And I do believe there is a spiritual realm, multiple realities, in fact. I myself embrace mysticism, and the mystery of it all. I'm just saying I believe that devotion should be out of love for God, not desire to avoid punishment.

    I don't believe in eternal punishment, so it's a bit of a non-issue for me, really. Punishment without the opportunity for correction, repentence, and unification of God seems pointless and cruel, and I don't believe any soul is beyond the help of the grace of God. I believe in justice, tempered with mercy.
     
  20. believer142

    believer142 Member

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    Actually, you are taking a risk. What if a different idea of God is correct? What about samsara? Simply believing in God is not enough to save you from coming back again and again and again...

    When i said that i was arguing against atheistic views. What i meant is that "being saved" also entails that we use our rationale to follw the way of the lord. And i believe he provides us with enough rationale to make the decision to follow the right path no matter what religion we belong to.



    A lot of religions acknowledge the idea of coming back again and again until liberation. In fact, more religions acknowledge samsara than that one, almighty God.[/QUOTE]

    Yes more religions acknowedge samsara but not more people.
     

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