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mee

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Who do you think provided the star that moved in the sky to guide the astrologers? Remember, the star did not guide them directly to Jesus in Bethlehem. Rather, they were led to Jerusalem where they came in touch with King Herod, who wanted to kill Jesus. And he would have done so if God had not stepped in and warned the astrologers not to tell Herod where Jesus was

Matthew 2:1-12; Micah 5:2.

 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, mee!

Interesting question.

My opinion, and mine only, is that it may have been a supernova. :D
LOL- you stole my answer! you would pick the most logical with no evidence left.:D

this is perplexing.

so i will go with a falling star or shooting star. but it went really slow by Gods finger & only the wisemen knew about it.
what i want to know is, why does the moon never go into the direct northern sky?
 
when the Bible is examined, we find that the "wise men" represented, not Christianity, but paganism:confused:

Also, we discover that they were unwitting performers in a plot of Satan the Devil to kill Jesus.

 
mee said:
when the Bible is examined, we find that the "wise men" represented, not Christianity, but paganism:confused:

Also, we discover that they were unwitting performers in a plot of Satan the Devil to kill Jesus.

all very possible. since they took the long road home, it seems to me, it does not really even matter, because nothing really ever happened-except for a witness of where Jesus was born.

I think God did not really want too many people to know when & where Jesus was born, because the birth is not what matters anyway & God keeps things hidden until there time & Jesus may have been killed if everyone knew.
I am guessing, & this is just my guess, it is there to show his birth was special.
 
mee said:
when the Bible is examined, we find that the "wise men" represented, not Christianity, but paganism:confused:

Also, we discover that they were unwitting performers in a plot of Satan the Devil to kill Jesus.

No that is not what we find. We find that they were "Sages" searching for the promised One. What we find is that a jealous King was a coniving vicious soul who would do anything to keep his pitiful reign. We also find that the very GOD who set up this whole thing, warned the "Sages" to go back by a different route, rather than advise the King of the whereabouts of the Child/King.

What I find disturbing is when a "Christian sect" holds more fascination with the "doings of the Devil" than with the doings of the "Savior".

I have a problem with the devilifying of the story of Christmas, or Christ's Birth.

The "Sages" were Astronomers (by today's standards), as well as astrologers (which was very different then, from today's standards).

The old testement spoke of the signs, well before the actual birth of the "Messiah". The Star was included in that scripture.

No, the Christmas story is a blessed one, and one to be presented to the world. It is a time when the world heart softens towards each individual.

I have to laugh...since 1914, Christmas has taken a very child oriented view... (innocent), before that in the states, it was a raucous event in the cities...except for folk in the country and on the prairie, where it was held in quiet reverence...

I know you do not accept Christmas as viable. But as for me and mine, we will hold this time as sacred. ;)

v/r

Q
 
Were the so-called "wise men" worshipers of the true God? No. The original Greek language of the Christian Scriptures calls them magoi—Magians, Zoroastrian priests (the term is related to the English word "magician"). They were astrologers from Mesopotamia, far to the east. They did not look upon Jesus as their Savior or Messiah, but as "king of the Jews."—Matt. 2:1, 2.

 
Quahom1 said:
No that is not what we find. We find that they were "Sages" searching for the promised One. What we find is that a jealous King was a coniving vicious soul who would do anything to keep his pitiful reign. We also find that the very GOD who set up this whole thing, warned the "Sages" to go back by a different route, rather than advise the King of the whereabouts of the Child/King.

What I find disturbing is when a "Christian sect" holds more fascination with the "doings of the Devil" than with the doings of the "Savior".

I have a problem with the devilifying of the story of Christmas, or Christ's Birth.

The "Sages" were Astronomers (by today's standards), as well as astrologers (which was very different then, from today's standards).

The old testement spoke of the signs, well before the actual birth of the "Messiah". The Star was included in that scripture.

No, the Christmas story is a blessed one, and one to be presented to the world. It is a time when the world heart softens towards each individual.

I have to laugh...since 1914, Christmas has taken a very child oriented view... (innocent), before that in the states, it was a raucous event in the cities...except for folk in the country and on the prairie, where it was held in quiet reverence...

I know you do not accept Christmas as viable. But as for me and mine, we will hold this time as sacred. ;)

v/r

Q

Consider the Bible account: Just prior to Jesus’ birth, his parents had arrived in Bethlehem to register for taxation. All the inns in the town were full. When Mary gave birth to Jesus, she laid him, bound in cloth, in a manger. On that very night God, by means of an angelic host, and not by a star, directed humble Jewish shepherds, worshipers of God, to the infant. The announcement was made to them that a child had been born to be a Savior, Christ (Messiah) the Lord.—Luke 2:1-17.

 
mee said:

Consider the Bible account: Just prior to Jesus’ birth, his parents had arrived in Bethlehem to register for taxation. All the inns in the town were full. When Mary gave birth to Jesus, she laid him, bound in cloth, in a manger. On that very night God, by means of an angelic host, and not by a star, directed humble Jewish shepherds, worshipers of God, to the infant. The announcement was made to them that a child had been born to be a Savior, Christ (Messiah) the Lord.—Luke 2:1-17.

So leave the star alone, and celebrate the Birth, of the Savior...but you can't. You must destroy the grace of God, before the hopeful. OT specifically states that a "Star" would announce the Birth. not good stuff here.

v/r

Q
 
and they brought him gifts, because Jesus is the gift to the world, the light of the world so there journey was to seek the child.

the wise men come in like 2 years (or whatever) after his birth.
even if they were pagan astrologers:rolleyes: , they were wise enough to know the difference & that there was something unique going on there.

Mee, are you trying to devilfy the Christmas story?
 
Unfortunately I'm without Strong's at the moment - but is the description definitely "Magi" as in "Zoroastrian priests", or is it possible there is another interpretion for the description?

Simply because Mesopotamia also had a very significant and well respected Jewish presence in Bagdhad, so I've often wondered in what way the "wise men" might have represented Jews of the Diaspora returning to accept a universal "King of the Jews" - ie, in Israel, and abroad. Just a thought.
 
Bandit said:
and they brought him gifts, because Jesus is the gift to the world, the light of the world so there journey was to seek the child.

the wise men come in like 2 years (or whatever) after his birth.
even if they were pagan astrologers:rolleyes: , they were wise enough to know the difference & that there was something unique going on there.

Mee, are you trying to devilfy the Christmas story?
i havent mentioned christmas my question was who put the star there , as you say it was 2 years later and herod did not like to think that he was not the greatest, so thats why he had all babies 2 years and under killed ,he wanted Jesus killed ,so who is it that wants Jesus out the way, non other than satan the devil .so it is food for thought
 
I said:
Unfortunately I'm without Strong's at the moment - but is the description definitely "Magi" as in "Zoroastrian priests", or is it possible there is another interpretion for the description?

Simply because Mesopotamia also had a very significant and well respected Jewish presence in Bagdhad, so I've often wondered in what way the "wise men" might have represented Jews of the Diaspora returning to accept a universal "King of the Jews" - ie, in Israel, and abroad. Just a thought.



Who​
were the Magi that visited the young child Jesus?





Astrologers (Gr., ma´goi; "Magi," AS ftn, CC, We; "Magians," ED) brought gifts to the young child Jesus. (Mt 2:1-16) Commenting on who these ma´goi were, The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (Vol. II, p. 139) says: "According to Herodotus the magi were a tribe of the Medes [I, 101], who professed to interpret dreams, and had the official charge of sacred rites . . . they were, in short, the learned and priestly class, and having, as was supposed, the skill of deriving from books and the observation of the stars a supernatural insight into coming events . . . Later investigations tend rather to make Babylon than Media and Persia the centre of full-blown magianism. ‘Originally, the Median priests were not called magi . . . From the Chaldeans, however, they received the name of magi for their priestly caste, and it is thus we are to explain what Herodotus says of the magi being a Median tribe’ . . . (J. C. Müller in Herzog’s Encl.)."—Edited by P. Fairbairn, London, 1874.​

Rightly, then, Justin Martyr, Origen, and Tertullian, when reading Matthew 2:1, thought of ma´goi as astrologers. Wrote Tertullian ("On Idolatry," IX): "We know the mutual alliance of magic and astrology. The interpreters of the stars, then, were the first . . . to present Him [Jesus] ‘gifts.’" (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. III, p. 65) The name Magi became current "as a generic term for astrologers in the East."—The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 22, p. 8076.​



So the circumstantial evidence is strong that the ma´goi who visited the infant Jesus were astrologers. Thus The New Testament translated by C. B. Williams reads "star-gazers," with a footnote in explanation: "This is, students of stars in relation to events on earth." Fittingly, then, modern English translations read "astrologers" at Matthew 2:1.—AT, NE, NW, Ph.





How many of these astrologers "from eastern parts" brought "gold and frankincense and myrrh" to the child Jesus is not disclosed; there is no factual basis for the traditional notion that there were three. (Mt 2:1, 11) As astrologers, they were servants of false gods and were, wittingly or unwittingly, led by what appeared to them as a moving "star." They alerted Herod to the fact that the "king of the Jews" had been born, and Herod, in turn, sought to have Jesus killed. The plot, however, failed. Jehovah intervened and proved superior to the demon gods of the astrologers, so instead of returning to Herod, the astrologers headed home another way after being given "divine warning in a dream."—Mt 2:2, 12

 
mee said:
i havent mentioned christmas my question was who put the star there , as you say it was 2 years later and herod did not like to think that he was not the greatest, so thats why he had all babies 2 years and under killed ,he wanted Jesus killed ,so who is it that wants Jesus out the way, non other than satan the devil .so it is food for thought
i agree with you in part as a possibility & YES, satan & herod were trembling.
my point is, nothing ever happened, except for a witness of when/where of his birth-
what happened there with Jesus & Herod was just like what happened with Moses & Pharao. Moses was kept hidden. Right?

it is when people start going after the 'pagan' Christmas & 'pagan' Easter is when problems are created.
none of this is an issue for me.

from what i can see God put the star there, i dont know why you would think the devil would put it there because God made all the stars.:D
However i do see a possible connection there with something like Venus, because there is a point when everything is brightest & just prior to that it appears to be the brightest.
Jesus is the light, bright & morning star, but satan can 'appear' to be light.

i cannot say they were going there to kill Jesus because they never reported back to Herod. they brought him gifts, not a sword.
it probably took them a year to get there.:confused:

what do you think?
 
Bandit said:
i agree with you in part as a possibility & YES, satan & herod were trembling.
my point is, nothing ever happened, except for a witness of when/where of his birth-
what happened there with Jesus & Herod was just like what happened with Moses & Pharao. Moses was kept hidden. Right?

it is when people start going after the 'pagan' Christmas & 'pagan' Easter is when problems are created.
none of this is an issue for me.

from what i can see God put the star there, i dont know why you would think the devil would put it there because God made all the stars.:D
However i do see a possible connection there with something like Venus, because there is a point when everything is brightest & just prior to that it appears to be the brightest.
Jesus is the light, bright & morning star, but satan can 'appear' to be light.

i cannot say they were going there to kill Jesus because they never reported back to Herod. they brought him gifts, not a sword.
it probably took them a year to get there.:confused:

what do you think?
no i do not think they were going there to kill Jesus that was herods plot .but i do think that herod used those men to find out were Jesus was,and satan used those men to try to have jesus killed by herod .but the star does not lead them to bethlehem it draws them to Jerusalem and to Herod ,and Herod was not very happy to hear about a future king of the Jews.The star that lead them to Jerusalem seems to move !—Matthew 2:1-9.after herod dispatched those men to find the child.i dont think the star was from God, whether it was a light in the sky or just a vision we do not know. the astrologers the unwitting dupes , likelywould have reported back to Herod and told him where the child was leading to Jesus death. but of coarse God intervined . and they went back another way .how ironic that the star and the astrologers are potrayed in nativity scenes as coming from God
. Despite what countless Nativity scenes depict, Matthew does not specify how many of these men came, nor does he call them "wise men," much less "three kings." He uses the Greek word ma´goi, which means "astrologers." This alone should give the reader a clue that something evil is at work here, for astrology is an art that God’s Word condemns and that faithful Jews scrupulously avoided.—Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Isaiah 47:13, 14





 
mee said:
no i do not think they were going there to kill Jesus that was herods plot .but i do think that herod used those men to find out were Jesus was,and satan used those men to try to have jesus killed by herod .but the star does not lead them to bethlehem it draws them to Jerusalem and to Herod ,and Herod was not very happy to hear about a future king of the Jews.The star that lead them to Jerusalem seems to move !—Matthew 2:1-9.after herod dispatched those men to find the child.i dont think the star was from God, whether it was a light in the sky or just a vision we do not know. the astrologers the unwitting dupes , likelywould have reported back to Herod and told him where the child was leading to Jesus death. but of coarse God intervined . and they went back another way .how ironic that the star and the astrologers are potrayed in nativity scenes as coming from God
. Despite what countless Nativity scenes depict, Matthew does not specify how many of these men came, nor does he call them "wise men," much less "three kings." He uses the Greek word ma´goi, which means "astrologers." This alone should give the reader a clue that something evil is at work here, for astrology is an art that God’s Word condemns and that faithful Jews scrupulously avoided.—Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Isaiah 47:13, 14





i understand what you are saying. all the stars appear to move because of the rotation. i also know what you are saying about certain astrology that is not of God. herod tried to use those men. whether there be 2 or 10, we dont know...we three kings comes from the orient & a different story, i think that is where the confusion is.
now,

whether it was a light in the sky or just a vision we do not know
that is kind of where we have to stand with it because it is never mentioned again.
i think people are thinking more along the star of david when they use it in a display, not a devil star.
however, where ever God is working, Satan is right there doing his work also.


there was a 'star', very bright, where i used to live. it appeared almost every night & moved fast from east to west. it took about an hour to pass. it was not in order with the other stars but appeared & took the same path every night i would guess it was there 90% of the time.
we all saw it all the time, very high & it was like between 9pm & midnight.
we never figured out what it was. satellite? plane?
we dont know.
which reminds me, i need to call back there some day & see if they ever figured it out & if it is still showing up. :)
 
OK, I now have to post a dumb question. How can you locate a point on the earth using just one star, and especially if that star is moving?

I've always viewed the star not exactly as only symbolic, but certainly being "interpreted" in the hearts of the Magi by angels or the Holy Spirit. They see a star and they walk in its direction, but really it is a divine guidance that leads them to the Christ child.

Seems like if I started walking in the direction of the North Star, which has the advantage of being "fixed," I'd probably end up cold but hard to believe I'd end up at the exact North Pole.

Don't know much 'bout astronomy (or astrology, for that matter)...

lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
OK, I now have to post a dumb question. How can you locate a point on the earth using just one star, and especially if that star is moving?

I've always viewed the star not exactly as only symbolic, but certainly being "interpreted" in the hearts of the Magi by angels or the Holy Spirit. They see a star and they walk in its direction, but really it is a divine guidance that leads them to the Christ child.

Seems like if I started walking in the direction of the North Star, which has the advantage of being "fixed," I'd probably end up cold but hard to believe I'd end up at the exact North Pole.

Don't know much 'bout astronomy (or astrology, for that matter)...

lunamoth
You'd end up about 21* off of true north, or about 15 miles from the center of the north pole. Not bad for no GPS...;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
You'd end up about 21* off of true north, or about 15 miles from the center of the north pole. Not bad for no GPS...;)

v/r

Q

Knowing me I'd end up quite a bit further than 15 miles from the center (I've been off-center my whole life :p ).

lunamoth
 
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