changes on the earth

[mee]

the bible teaches that God will bring about changes on the earth.

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away...rev 21;4

At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness. For in the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain. ...Isaiah 35;6

At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. .........Isaiah 35;5

Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. John 5;28-29

And no resident will say: "I am sick." The people that are dwelling in [the land] will be those pardoned for their errorIsaiah 33;24

There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth onthe top of the mountains there will be an overflow....psalm 72;16......what a wonderful hope for the future of the earth ......... man was made for the earth and Gods original purpose will come true for the earth .would you not agree that changes will come about just as God promises in the bible ,throughthe heavenly kingdom that jesus has been made king of DAN 2;44

 

[truthseeker]

So is it that because God made man of flesh, the spirit of man can never go to heaven?

What happens to the spirit? Does the spirit just lay in wait until Jehovah calls man to the new paradise on earth? Wouldn't that be, like, a lot of spirits? Is there no chance that God could be recycling spirits in the form of the Eastern thought of rebirth?

 

[mee]

So is it that because God made man of flesh, the spirit of man can never go to heaven?

What happens to the spirit? Does the spirit just lay in wait until Jehovah calls man to the new paradise on earth? Wouldn't that be, like, a lot of spirits? Is there no chance that God could be recycling spirits in the form of the Eastern thought of rebirth?

that depends on your personal beliefs ,mine are based on the bible which tells me that the rightous will inherit the earth
it is God’s purpose for the earth to be an eternal home for mankind

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth...matthew 5;5

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth....psalm 37;11

 

[Bandit]

So is it that because God made man of flesh, the spirit of man can never go to heaven?

What happens to the spirit? Does the spirit just lay in wait until Jehovah calls man to the new paradise on earth? Wouldn't that be, like, a lot of spirits? Is there no chance that God could be recycling spirits in the form of the Eastern thought of rebirth?

LOL
I know where you are coming from on this.

 

[truthseeker]

that depends on your personal beliefs ,mine are based on the bible which tells me that the rightous will inherit the earth
it is God’s purpose for the earth to be an eternal home for mankind

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth...matthew 5;5

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth....psalm 37;11

Sincerely and Respectfully, Mee - what about the spirit of mankind? When I read the bible, I take it in a spiritual context. There are stories being told but the lessons are meant to build my spiritual character; that I may become that who is righteous. Should the spirit not seek a higher realm of being? What if you don't care about a new paradise on earth but just want to be closer to God? Will He get mad because you don't want to be resurrected to a physical realm? Why is it that every other religion sees an existence after physical death outside of the physical realm except JWs?

 

[Quahom1]

that depends on your personal beliefs ,mine are based on the bible which tells me that the rightous will inherit the earth
it is God’s purpose for the earth to be an eternal home for mankind

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth...matthew 5;5

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth....psalm 37;11

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...that is how my Bible states it. And there is a big difference between a mild-tempered person and a meek person.

The meek are those who are humble before God. Meekness has nothing to do with our lack of assertiveness toward others. Meekness has everything to do with our posture toward God.

There was once a student who went to study with a Zen master. They sat down for tea, and the student began to tell the master how hard he had worked to arrive at this moment: spending his entire life learning disciplines and studying ideas so that he would be worthy. As the student continued talking about his accomplishments, the master poured tea into his cup. The cup became full, and then it began to overflow; but the master kept pouring.

"Master! Stop!" said the student, "Can't you see you are spilling tea everywhere?"

The master stopped and looked at the student. "That is my point. You can't pour tea into a cup that is already full."

There is also a huge difference between "Happy are ..." and "Blessed are..."

This is how Matthew states it:

Blessed are the poor in spirit:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn:
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek:
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful:
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart:
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers:
for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye,
when men shall revile you,
and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for my sake.
Rejoice,
and be exceeding glad:
for great is your reward in heaven:
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you​

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According to your statements, and in light of this passage, some will be on earth and some will be in Heaven?​

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That in and of itself is fine, as long as all get to be close to God.​

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Actually Mee, that is an outstanding concept. Not everyone wants to leave this world, but everyone wants the attention of God. Heaven afterall, was made for the angels and the government of God, wherein earth was made for man.​

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Personally, I don't want to live in a mansion with many rooms. I'd rather walk through the forests and woods, dive the seas, and trek through the deserts. I'd like to seek out the wonders of the Universe. I personally don't think Heaven would be a very good place for a soul with wanderlust. But I would like the company of God...​

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That would be - heavenly to me. ​

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Interesting thought you bring out.​

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v/r​

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Q​

 

[lunamoth]

Personally, I don't want to live in a mansion with many rooms. I'd rather walk through the forests and woods, dive the seas, and trek through the deserts. I'd like to seek out the wonders of the Universe. I personally don't think Heaven would be a very good place for a soul with wanderlust. But I would like the company of God...​

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That would be - heavenly to me. ​

​

Interesting thought you bring out.​

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v/r​

​

Q​

Sounds like the Nexus to me, Q. I've often thought that the view of heaven given in Reveleations, the jewlled city, if taken literally sounds quite dull. But the part about resting in God, yeah, I like that too. I guess I'll just trust God that it will be exactly what my soul needs.

PS--Thank you for posting the Beatitudes--love them.

lunamoth

 

[Quahom1]

Sounds like the Nexus to me, Q. I've often thought that the view of heaven given in Reveleations, the jewlled city, if taken literally sounds quite dull. But the part about resting in God, yeah, I like that too. I guess I'll just trust God that it will be exactly what my soul needs.

PS--Thank you for posting the Beatitudes--love them.

lunamoth

Ah. The Nexus, only with pure adreneline running through the veins! Nothing boring when it is a rush. Kirk and Guinan had it wrong. Excitement is everywhere...

But then...I'm not dead yet.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

Sincerely and Respectfully, Mee - what about the spirit of mankind? When I read the bible, I take it in a spiritual context. There are stories being told but the lessons are meant to build my spiritual character; that I may become that who is righteous. Should the spirit not seek a higher realm of being? What if you don't care about a new paradise on earth but just want to be closer to God? Will He get mad because you don't want to be resurrected to a physical realm? Why is it that every other religion sees an existence after physical death outside of the physical realm except JWs?

for me,getting closer to God means being obedient to his rules and regulations, only then can i put myself in line to gain everlasting life . if i draw away from the true God i have only got myself to blame if he ignores me
"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you."—JAMES 4:8.so yes you are right we do become more spiritual if we seek to do Gods will,but the fact is man was not created to live for a short time and then die ,that was not Gods original purpose.his original purpose was for man to live forever on the earth .we all know the reason why we are in a dieing state at this point in time , but that was not his original purpose.man was made for the earth to live forever .yes as far as i know JW are the only ones who have not taken on the( Immortality of the human soul manmade doctrine ) as christians we should stick to the word of truth not add things to it.that is my take on getting into a relationship with God , but others choose other things.

 

[Bandit]

for me,getting closer to God means being obedient to his rules and regulations, only then can i put myself in line to gain everlasting life . if i draw away from the true God i have only got myself to blame if he ignores me
"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you."—JAMES 4:8.so yes you are right we do become more spiritual if we seek to do Gods will,but the fact is man was not created to live for a short time and then die ,that was not Gods original purpose.his original purpose was for man to live forever on the earth .we all know the reason why we are in a dieing state at this point in time , but that was not his original purpose.man was made for the earth to live forever .yes as far as i know JW are the only ones who have not taken on the( Immortality of the human soul manmade doctrine ) as christians we should stick to the word of truth not add things to it.that is my take on getting into a relationship with God , but others choose other things.

i believe we will live on the earth also. i think the soul gets a 'new' body just like Jesus has, but it will be immortal flesh & bone with no blood. we will be able to appear & disappear & there will be food to eat (but we will not hunger), the same way Jesus did. i think this is what makes us different from angels & that which is only spirit or like God.
i dont think we will just be spirits only.
but this is a realm that this mortal flesh will never know of & the unrighteous will never see. i think adam & eve very possibly started out in a different dimension.
& i think this is why we do not find the remains of the stories in the OT, because the Kingdom of God is not of this earth- so the things they find & study are of this world & not of the one to come. & i think God has done it this way on purpose.
is that kind of what you are trying to say Mee?

 

[truthseeker]

Beautiful statement, Mee. I can agree that man was made to live on the earth, forever - though I completely lost sight of that.
Bananas, orange juice, and CR is a wonderful way to spend your morning.

 

[mee]

i believe we will live on the earth also. i think the soul gets a 'new' body just like Jesus has, but it will be immortal flesh & bone with no blood. we will be able to appear & disappear & there will be food to eat (but we will not hunger), the same way Jesus did. i think this is what makes us different from angels & that which is only spirit or like God.
i dont think we will just be spirits only.
but this is a realm that this mortal flesh will never know of & the unrighteous will never see. i think adam & eve very possibly started out in a different dimension.
& i think this is why we do not find the remains of the stories in the OT, because the Kingdom of God is not of this earth- so the things they find & study are of this world & not of the one to come. & i think God has done it this way on purpose.
is that kind of what you are trying to say Mee?

my thoughts are only what the bible tells me .i think that we are meant to be flesh and blood that was what God intended in the first place that is what adam and eve were like before they sinned . the earth will be full of food to eat that was Gods original purpose.
"Surely just as I have figured, so it must occur; and just as I have counseled, that is what will come true."—ISAIAH 14:24

so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it..Isaiah 55;11

 

[Bandit]

my thoughts are only what the bible tells me .i think that we are meant to be flesh and blood that was what God intended in the first place that is what adam and eve were like before they sinned . the earth will be full of food to eat that was Gods original purpose.
"Surely just as I have figured, so it must occur; and just as I have counseled, that is what will come true."—ISAIAH 14:24

so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it..Isaiah 55;11

ok. except the bible says Jesus did not have blood in his resurrection. he had immortal flesh & bone-which means he could do anything that mortals & immortals can do (except be hurt get stinky or die). if we have blood, then we can get sick, get stinky, bleed & die.-unless you think the blood is immortal.

i dont think it is going to be the same dimension we know now at all.

 

[Quahom1]

ok. except the bible says Jesus did not have blood in his resurrection. he had immortal flesh & bone-which means he could do anything that mortals & immortals can do (except be hurt get stinky or die). if we have blood, then we can get sick, get stinky, bleed & die.-unless you think the blood is immortal.

i dont think it is going to be the same dimension we know now at all.

What about the challenge to Thomas? Did not the sight of the wounds sicken him? Was he not loathe to put his fingers through the wounds of Jesus? Why did Jesus not have the wounds healed? Perhaps he was trying to make a point, that point being that He was flesh and blood (stinky and all), yet He lived.

Thomas said, "I don't believe, because you are dead Lord". The Lord made it quite clear that He was alive, and it was He that came down from the cross.

But then I could be wrong.

v/r

Q

 

[Bandit]

What about the challenge to Thomas? Did not the sight of the wounds sicken him? Was he not loathe to put his fingers through the wounds of Jesus? Why did Jesus not have the wounds healed? Perhaps he was trying to make a point, that point being that He was flesh and blood (stinky and all), yet He lived.

Thomas said, "I don't believe, because you are dead Lord". The Lord made it quite clear that He was alive, and it was He that came down from the cross.

But then I could be wrong.

v/r

Q

but he was not a raised corpse like Lazarus was. right? Lazarus still had blood & was stinky.
Jesus was in an immortal, 'changed' body. if he had blood then blood would be pouring out the wounds.
but that blood already went out for the remission of our sins.
i think Thomas wanted to touch him. i believe the wounds were real & what Thomas touched was real, but how can one describe immortality?
healed wounds? i dont know.
i forget who, but at one point someone thought he was a ghost. right? another place he said "a spirit hath not flesh & bone as ye see me have". (paraphrased)
he ate fish & just appeared out of nowhere.
he was raised from corruptible to un/incoruptible.

it sounds like dracula or a a sci fi. but i believe it all.
I dont know how God does it or did it, but i believe it.

no blood & no stink is what i think.
what do you think?

 

[InLove]

Hey, Peace to All Here--

I am having a bit of trouble reading everything from where I am, but I am going to try to say something here--blood cries out. I do not remember anything specifically stated in the Bible where it says that Jesus, after the resurrection, did not have blood pumping though his veins. Bandit, can you tell me where it says that? I have always believed that He was resurrected from the grave just the way He was before the Crucifixion--entirely Son of Man and entirely Son of God.

I believe that when He invited Thomas (who gets the "wrap" (sp?) for being the doubter, because he wasn't there with the others the first time Christ appeared after He rose from the grave) to check Him out--yeah, I believe His wounds were real, and healing (in more ways than one).

Maybe I am just trying to understand what you guys are saying?

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Bandit]

Hey, Peace to All Here--

I am having a bit of trouble reading everything from where I am, but I am going to try to say something here--blood cries out. I do not remember anything specifically stated in the Bible where it says that Jesus, after the resurrection, did not have blood pumping though his veins. Bandit, can you tell me where it says that? I have always believed that He was resurrected from the grave just the way He was before the Crucifixion--entirely Son of Man and entirely Son of God.

I believe that when He invited Thomas (who gets the "wrap" (sp?) for being the doubter, because he wasn't there with the others the first time Christ appeared after He rose from the grave) to check Him out--yeah, I believe His wounds were real, and healing (in more ways than one).

Maybe I am just trying to understand what you guys are saying?

InPeace,
InLove

Lazarus came back that way with his blood pumping & i see a parallels there with Jesus.

InLove, you think Jesus was resurrected back into a mortal body like with bandages on his wounds? you think when Thomas put his finger into his side that Thomas finger came out with blood on it?

i can t say the bible says it that way either InLove, but I will give you that if you can show me where it says his physical heart was pumping real blood.
i dont think Jesus had that kind of body any more.

what i do see is that all the blood was shed on Calvary, which is really a type of embalming today which would have preserved his physical body while in the tomb. part of the prophecy was that Jesus would not see & did not return to corruption. he was not in the tomb long enough for his flesh to corrupt. i think it is possible that the piercing & the holes in his hands were more like scars, say wounds or holes but healed scars & no scabs that you could peel off. (i dont know because i have never seen an immortal body yet)

if Jesus had blood at the ressurection then he would be mortal & need food to survive dont you think?.

HOWEVER- i used to think that when he first rose, he rose like a zombie, & mary was not allowed to touch him because he had not yet been perfected & had not ascended to God yet. then when he appeared to the apostles, he had his perfected body. (not sure, still wondering)
then i realized, that Jesus had to ascend to God to sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat (but not literal blood like in the OT.)
he said DONT TOUCH ME. remember?

see, i dont believe we end up JUST spirits like angels, but I dont think we have mortal bodies either- I think there is something in between that only Jesus has experienced & only he knows.

what do you think INLove?

 

[InLove]

Hey, dear Bandit--

You know what--about the Mercy Seat--I do remember something. I will look farther into that tonight.

Regarding whether Jesus' body was physically intact before the Ascension--all I can say is to direct you to Luke 24 (verse 42, specifically). Okay, in context, it would be 40-43--and even that is for my own argumentative purposes. Really, one should read the rest.

"When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, 'Do you have anything here to eat?' They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence" (NIV).

Whether Christ did this because He needed food, or for the sake of others, so they could believe, I do not know. Probably the latter, but who are we to say?

What I do know is that the blood spilled at Calvary is what matters.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Bandit]

i think it is ok to believe he was mortal.

but then we are looking at going to the bathroom, taking showers, Jesus would have been in pain from the wounds, needed to sleep etc.

i am not trying to convince anyone, because all these things have gone around in my head too. & i dont have the power to resurrect anyone, so i dont know.
but i believe.

on the other hand, since i believe he was in his immortal 'quickened' body, there is another question.
after he ate the fish, what happened to the fish?
i dont know. i can only smile & guess.

 

[InLove]

Well, it is interesting, but if I told you what I believe, you would probably think I did not believe---.

I think we limit God. I also think that He understands.

InPeace,
InLove