Genesis 3:3-4

[truthseeker]

Genesis 3:3-4 (NIV)

3but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you [shall surely] die.'

4"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like [gods], knowing good and evil."

Really, I like the way that the KJV reads better but at this time I have access only to the NIV.

I find this scripture to be interesting. This is the original sin, right?

Do you think that the fruit on the tree is a metaphor or that this is literal? Being a metaphor, does this still apply today?
I mean, could it be that there is information that we should not be trying to tap into ('fruit' of knowledge), and with uncovering some knowledge of certain things we could be setting ourselves up for death?

 

[Bandit]

Really, I like the way that the KJV reads better but at this time I have access only to the NIV.

I find this scripture to be interesting. This is the original sin, right?

Do you think that the fruit on the tree is a metaphor or that this is literal? Being a metaphor, does this still apply today?
I mean, could it be that there is information that we should not be trying to tap into ('fruit' of knowledge), and with uncovering some knowledge of certain things we could be setting ourselves up for death?

besides all the fancy metaphor stuff people come up with, i will start with---- i think it was a real tree, probably some kind of simple fruit. i always think of a fig or raspberry bush for some reason. i think because it was something that snakes like to eat as well. this is the thought that i think was presented- if the snake can eat & not die then you can eat too & not die. (but this is just my thought on the literal of it all)

i was eating from some wild blackberries out back a couple of years ago & there was some kind of snake resting up in one of the bushes. just before that i heard the rattles of a snake...well i ran real quick & did not wait to see..

i think there is a lot of knowledge we may try to tap into that we should not be like poisonous to our soul in this case it brought a spiritual death through disobedience.


Hi Truthseeker- Hope all is going well for you!

 

[Quahom1]

...i think there is a lot of knowledge we may try to tap into that we should not be like poisonous to our soul in this case it brought a spiritual death through disobedience.


Hi Truthseeker- Hope all is going well for you!

I'll state that I think it was a combination of actuality and metaphor. The "Tree of Life" is in my opinion the essence of God..."I am the tree, you are the branches". We are also told that none have seen God in His true state, else they would die from being overwhelmed. The "tree of Life" was dead center in God's garden.

Prior to this "mishap" man was considered innocent, to the point of not recgonizing even personal modesty.

The Serpent, was a clever being, who had an ulterior motive...disrupt the plans of God. God wanted a companion to commune with, and the being represented by the serpent did not want this. The "one who denies" continued to show his true colors. He denied God allegiance, and then denied God His companion.

He played upon man's curiosity. However I suspect God knew this, and planned for it, for His ultimate glory.

And now that Man does have the "knowledge" buried deep in his psychie, I believe that God wants us to confer with Him, while exploring that knowledge. Knowledge itself is not good nor bad, right or wrong. What we do with it, and how we acquire it is a different matter, as well as our intentions for deciphering that knowledge.

As far as the fall from eating from the tree of life, I do believe that is orginal sin, and as the "sins of the father" carry on down to the third and even fourth generations, I believe because of that, it perpetuates through history.

Why do I think this? We keep making the same mistakes our fathers and mothers made.

Just my thoughts.

v/r

Q

 

[truthseeker]

Hello dear Bandit. It is always 'fruitful' to talk to you.

But the tree was one of the knowledge of good and evil. A tree that bore fruit, I suppose the tree bore the fruit of knowledge which was the things that could be and was and will be. And suppose Eve 'bit' of this 'fruit' ...

That kind of jacks up the creation story, doesn't it?
I think I'm having a moment during this time of the month - I'm finding that what suited me as a child no longer suits me as an adult...

 

[Bandit]

Hello dear Bandit. It is always 'fruitful' to talk to you.

But the tree was one of the knowledge of good and evil. A tree that bore fruit, I suppose the tree bore the fruit of knowledge which was the things that could be and was and will be. And suppose Eve 'bit' of this 'fruit' ...

That kind of jacks up the creation story, doesn't it?
I think I'm having a moment during this time of the month - I'm finding that what suited me as a child no longer suits me as an adult...

well yes, she bit it. God said dont eat it because you will die. she was decieved thinking she would not die. it was not until after she ate she was aware of the knowledge of good & evil. i think this was a spiritual death, being turned away from the face & spirit of God.
what do you think?

 

[Bandit]

As far as the fall from eating from the tree of life, I do believe that is orginal sin, and as the "sins of the father" carry on down to the third and even fourth generations, I believe because of that, it perpetuates through history.


v/r

Q

you mean the tree of good & evil right?
i tend to think the garden & both the man & woman there shared in some way in the glory of God because everything seems so perfect. so the fall was kind of set up & meant to happen.
i do think it was original sin that brought the curse of death upon all men & it seems to me Adam was accountable for that, because he was not decieved in the transgression, where Eve was.

but the following is one thing I think i am missing a gear on so see what you think.

example:
your grandpa commits a murder. why would your father, you, your son & your grandson be held accountable for the sin (murder) of your grandpa?
it seems to me God would not be just in that holding others accountable for the sins of someone else. if so why would God do that? what purpose is in that & does that make God a fair & just God?

in another place where Jesus said the blood of Abel would be required by this generation, as if someone in this generation is accountable.
we dont even do this in the court of law today, though a bondsman could stand in our place to get us out of jail, but we are still accountable for our own deeds.

do you see why i see something missing in that & why i need a satisfactory explanation?
kind of like me robbing banks & God holding it against my son & me at the same time, when my son had nothing to do with it.
so, is that what it is really saying?

 

[mee]

That tree symbolized the all-wise Creator’s right to decide what is good and what is bad.

 

[Quahom1]

Right, two trees, one of knowledge and one of life. God stopped them from eating from the tree of life, but not from eating from the tree of knowledge.

Knowledge is neither good nor bad. It just is. What we do with it determines whether it becomes good or bad. We decide, all by our little lonesomes.

v/r

Q

 

[truthseeker]

That tree symbolized the all-wise Creator’s right to decide what is good and what is bad.

So are you saying that 'when Eve ate of that tree', she took it upon herself (though she couldn't have known what she was getting into) to be awakened to the knowledge to decide what is good and what is bad?

 

[didymus]

I think the tree is a metaphor for temptation and the consequences, both good and bad of giving in to temptation. Temptation is very alluring and sometimes sweet like fruit. To me temptation isn't always evil or even bad. Sometimes it clearly leads down a road to destruction. Once we have succumbed to the temptaion we have opened the door to a hitherto unknown knowledge. We now have the knowledge of good and evil.

When I was a child I knew certain things were wrong. Eventually I gave into some of these "wrong things" as I became older. Alcohol and smoking were some of the first that I tried. These actions opened the door wide to a new wisdom of right and wrong and blurred the lines between the two. If it wasn't for givinmg in to drink and tobacco I wouldn't know today that that theses are things I no longer wish to engage in. To me this was an essential experience in my life that God has used to make me stronger and wiser.

 

[Bandit]

I think the tree is a metaphor for temptation and the consequences, both good and bad of giving in to temptation. Temptation is very alluring and sometimes sweet like fruit. To me temptation isn't always evil or even bad. Sometimes it clearly leads down a road to destruction. Once we have succumbed to the temptaion we have opened the door to a hitherto unknown knowledge. We now have the knowledge of good and evil.

When I was a child I knew certain things were wrong. Eventually I gave into some of these "wrong things" as I became older. Alcohol and smoking were some of the first that I tried. These actions opened the door wide to a new wisdom of right and wrong and blurred the lines between the two. If it wasn't for givinmg in to drink and tobacco I wouldn't know today that that theses are things I no longer wish to engage in. To me this was an essential experience in my life that God has used to make me stronger and wiser.

i think so too. i think we have seen a lot of this in politics & science as well. same thing with the extremely wealthy. some people sincerly trying to help & others trying to play God with the knowledge.
some are able to simply peek into pandoras box & leave it alone while others have to take the box home & jump right into it trying to own the box bringing there own destruction.

the commandment was do not eat it or they would die. when eve was tempted by the devil, she added to the commandement by saying "neither shall ye touch it". IMO, i am thinking- she could have touched it & lived but that was not enough, she had to eat from it too.

so from that symbol, i can see where we may come entangled in sin, yet maybe if we just touch it or spit it out after tasting it, then leave it alone, we wont suffer death. we become wiser to know the difference in what we should do & how we should think & we will not suffer the pain of death. for we know disobedience is sin & sin when it has 'conceived'-it bringeth forth death.
We want to stay alive unto Jesus & over time we become stronger & not yield to temptation through the power of the Holy Ghost.
The NT really touches home base with some of this.

 

[mee]

So are you saying that 'when Eve ate of that tree', she took it upon herself (though she couldn't have known what she was getting into) to be awakened to the knowledge to decide what is good and what is bad?

Jehovah God always fore warns he told them what would happen if she eat the fruit they did know that their continued life depended on being obediant

 

[truthseeker]

Putting it that way, mee, it sounds as if the disobedience was blatant. Like maybe the serpent didn't trick her at all, maybe the serpent just urged her to do something she had been curious about anyway.

Quahom's idea of the tree is quite colorful.

So I'm getting that the 'fruit of knowledge' had always been there, Eve bit the fruit, and 'her eyes were opened'. Don't get bored with me, folks, I'm growing up.

She gave the leftovers to Adam (which women often do ) and his eyes were opened as well.
So ignorance is bliss.
Is the fruit still detrimental to mankind today?

 

[mee]

Putting it that way, mee, it sounds as if the disobedience was blatant. Like maybe the serpent didn't trick her at all, maybe the serpent just urged her to do something she had been curious about anyway.

Quahom's idea of the tree is quite colorful.

So I'm getting that the 'fruit of knowledge' had always been there, Eve bit the fruit, and 'her eyes were opened'. Don't get bored with me, folks, I'm growing up.

She gave the leftovers to Adam (which women often do ) and his eyes were opened as well.
So ignorance is bliss.
Is the fruit still detrimental to mankind today?

yes, that old serpent is the first lier,telling her she would not die at all ,how wrong he was, in efect satan was saying to eve i know better than Jehovah God ,so it was bringing the issue of universal sovreignty in to the picture.who has the right to make the rules,, Jehovah God ,or someone who decides for them selves and then leads others astrayto follow another rule instead ?so yes as the bible tells us eve was led astray ,but if she had spoken to adam about it first maybe things would have been a differant story because then it would have been easier to resist as they could have reasoned together .mind you ,when you think about it ,adam being the oldest and the one with a longer relationship with God may not have been decievedlike eve was.who knows?,but we can see that satan made a bee line for the weakest link ,that is not to say that i am refering that women are weak minded , but she may not have had such a close relatiionship with God ,.that is only my thoughts thou so i might be wrong i wasnt there.

 

[Quahom1]

yes, that old serpent is the first lier,telling her she would not die at all ,how wrong he was, in efect satan was saying to eve i know better than Jehovah God ,so it was bringing the issue of universal sovreignty in to the picture.who has the right to make the rules,, Jehovah God ,or someone who decides for them selves and then leads others astrayto follow another rule instead ?so yes as the bible tells us eve was led astray ,but if she had spoken to adam about it first maybe things would have been a differant story because then it would have been easier to resist as they could have reasoned together .mind you ,when you think about it ,adam being the oldest and the one with a longer relationship with God may not have been decievedlike eve was.who knows?,but we can see that satan made a bee line for the weakest link ,that is not to say that i am refering that women are weak minded , but she may not have had such a close relatiionship with God ,.that is only my thoughts thou so i might be wrong i wasnt there.

Actually I believe this is where God later came up with "if you love someone else greater than me, you're setting yourself up for a hard fall", type message in the Bible.

Adam knew several things:

1. Eve was lost to death
2. Eve was now alone
3. Adam loved Eve and God, but
4. Adam chose Eve over God
5. God knew Adam would
6. God knew the two would learn the lessons together, in coming back to Him

Adam was not deceived at all. He knew what he was about to do, knew what he was about to give up, yet he did it anyway.

 

[truthseeker]

Interesting view, Quahom.

Wasn't it that Eve ate the fruit and then just gave a piece to Adam? Did he know from which tree he was eating (unless, of course, the 'fruit' that the tree bore was it's namesake)? And if you are without knowledge, how do you know you are recieving it?

 

[Quahom1]

Interesting view, Quahom.

Wasn't it that Eve ate the fruit and then just gave a piece to Adam? Did he know from which tree he was eating (unless, of course, the 'fruit' that the tree bore was it's namesake)? And if you are without knowledge, how do you know you are recieving it?

Well, one has to take it on "faith", that if Adam was quick enough to name every animal on earth as God brought them to him, and spry enough to know that Eve was "flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone", He most likely knew what Eve had done, and deliberately chose to fall from grace, by accepting the fruit from her hand. He did not (in my opinion), want to abandon his own flesh and blood to the wilds of the unknown. Or, perhaps he thought God would destroy part of him, for the error she commited, and banked on hedging bets by standing with her. I also presume, that as intelligent as the two were, he didn't have much time to decide actions, and had no past history for reference to assist in his decision.

Eve's sin was giving in to desire (sound familiar?). Adams' was giving in to idolatry I think. He placed his own flesh and blood above the mandates of God. His second sin, was placing blame on someone else, for his own actions (probably a kneejerk manuever), none the less, Adam commited two sins. However, Adam in his initial actions, acted in a way that I think pleased God, and gave pause to the Creator. He used himself and his relationship with God to protect his woman.

I'm sure much of his afterthoughts consisted of "what the hell have I just done?". (Again this is my take on things, and NO OFFENSE to women intended).

But God did give us a warning/promise. Man will rule over Woman, and woman will desire after man...I don't think that meant sex was going to be heavenly...(though it is)...

It is happening just as God promised/warned.

In the NT, God gave us new orders. Really they are old orders, however He re-emmphasised them in the NT. Submit to eachtother, and respect the roles that eachother have.

We each want our cake, but we don't want to give the other their due.

So today we have "kings of the castle", with empty halls, and "Queens of Home and Hearth", with no king for a protector/provider...tough stuff to deal with.

Before someone goes crazy about my post. There are women that can do it all, and men that can forego the family life...granted. But that is not the majority of men and women. It isn't the rule, rather it is the exception to the rule.

Fiercely independent souls are around, but rare. Mostly broken hearts and broken spirits abound, due to broken vows.

v/r

Q

 

[InLove]

Hi, Peace--

Ya know what, Q? That was beautiful. Have you ever considered the pulpit? I wish I could hear more stuff like that from those who speak from there.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Quahom1]

Hi, Peace--

Ya know what, Q? That was beautiful. Have you ever considered the pulpit? I wish I could hear more stuff like that from those who speak from there.

InPeace,
InLove

Hmmm, if the church allowed me to keep my wife, I'd consider it.

v/r

Q

 

[InLove]

Maybe you should talk to them about that! You do have a way with words....