The right to disagree

DemocraticIndecision

Democratic Indecision
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London, Ohio
I had a dream last week and I feel compelled to share it although you do have the right to disagree. I had a dream that I was a soul (weird yes but onward I travel) and I was leaving a dying man but instead of the whole "a man dies and his soul awates judgement or goes directly to heaven or hell wichever you believe" I was resurrected more along the lines of being reborn and I suddenly knew why. Insetad of a soul awaiting judgement it inhabits another physical form throughout eternity until judgement and it as a whole (all the lives the soul has inhabited's mistakes, paths, choices, etc etc) is judged at the end by God himself on wether it enters the kingdom or dwells in the lake of fire. But I felt reassured when I awoke that this sounded very logical and I mean think outside the Bible box for a second People say that this life is a test and the way you choose your answers defines you and makes god decide on where you go, why cant it be like a proficiemcy test? many tests in one, once the soul is done with a test it goes on to another. and its final outcome decides where it goes. I do believe strongly in God, Jesus, and all things Christian, Catholic, etc. But this sounds very logical to me and i'd very much like to hear feed back. so please feel free to write just dont tear me apart with a speech about how "that cant be because its only this one certain way" because none of us know the true answer, open minds only please.

JeV:p
 
DemocraticIndecision said:
I had a dream last week and I feel compelled to share it although you do have the right to disagree. I had a dream that I was a soul (weird yes but onward I travel) and I was leaving a dying man but instead of the whole "a man dies and his soul awates judgement or goes directly to heaven or hell wichever you believe" I was resurrected more along the lines of being reborn and I suddenly knew why. Insetad of a soul awaiting judgement it inhabits another physical form throughout eternity until judgement and it as a whole (all the lives the soul has inhabited's mistakes, paths, choices, etc etc) is judged at the end by God himself on wether it enters the kingdom or dwells in the lake of fire. But I felt reassured when I awoke that this sounded very logical and I mean think outside the Bible box for a second People say that this life is a test and the way you choose your answers defines you and makes god decide on where you go, why cant it be like a proficiemcy test? many tests in one, once the soul is done with a test it goes on to another. and its final outcome decides where it goes. I do believe strongly in God, Jesus, and all things Christian, Catholic, etc. But this sounds very logical to me and i'd very much like to hear feed back. so please feel free to write just dont tear me apart with a speech about how "that cant be because its only this one certain way" because none of us know the true answer, open minds only please.

JeV:p

I think, you unknowingly hit the nail on the head. What we say, or confess to others doesn't matter. How we live does. Awaiting, commented on the fusion of eastern and western thought (something I never thought I'd hear/read anyone admit was possible), and that is something my Dad and I discuss frequently.

I still think there is only "one way", but I believe none of us know what that "one way" is, until right up to the last breath we take. However, I think we do get a general idea as we move along in life, so when the end comes, we are better prepared to "choose".

Then there are those who have dreams that shine a light in the right direction (lucky sap) :D

And if they act on that "knowledge", theirs is a much more productive life, here and now.

Your post, makes me think about the two paths we can take in life. The wide and easy one, or the long, narrow and hard one...there is a reason we were told about this, I believe. The narrow path forces us to focus and stay alert, see? The wide and easy causes us to let down our guard.

Nice post! Oh, and welcome to CR ;)

v/r

Q

P.S. I hope my sons (roughly your age), learn this "truth", or have learned it.
 
Hi -

There are certain 'issues' with a Christian response to your take on this, and if I may, I'll point them out.

"Insetad of a soul awaiting judgement it inhabits another physical form throughout eternity until judgement and it as a whole (all the lives the soul has inhabited's mistakes, paths, choices, etc etc) is judged at the end by God himself on wether it enters the kingdom or dwells in the lake of fire."


This separates 'soul' from 'person,' in the sense that Soul lives a life as Adam Brown, who dies, and then Soul goes on to Clare Dawson, and then Ed Frost and then, forever ...

So who are 'you'?

Christianity deals with the whole person, not just an anonymous non-human soul that inhabits a disposable human body. In Christianity a human being is body and soul, and this comprises the 'person.' One of the lessons of the Trinity is that 'person' exists all the way up and into God...

Put another way, "God became man that man might become God" as the Fathers say, not 'God became soul' ...

I mean think outside the Bible box for a second

Ooops, Careful! If, as Christians believe, Scripture is the Word of God, this comment could be read to imply we can out-think God ... which would tend to put you in some very dodgey company!

Basically, you are proposing reincarnation - and that is something that just won't work within Christianity.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Hi -
I mean think outside the Bible box for a second

Ooops, Careful! If, as Christians believe, Scripture is the Word of God, this comment could be read to imply we can out-think God ... which would tend to put you in some very dodgey company!

Basically, you are proposing reincarnation - and that is something that just won't work within Christianity.

Thomas

Thomas, thinking outside the Bible box is fine. Whether or not you agree, the fact is that there are so many different versions of the "infallible" Bible, that people frankly do not know what to think. So we take the lessons presented and get the jist of what God wants us to know. And it works.

Reincarnation? No. Rebirth? yes. We leave here, and we start anew elsewhere (hopefully in a better place, though this place isn't too bad yet, but isn't too good either).

Christ stated "Unless ye be born again..." and that is a form of reincarnation. Because one is born a new person (in Christ), yet there is that change, from the old life to the new.

Fighting reincarnation doesn't work. Working with the concept and showing that this is it (Christian born again), can...

v/r

Q
 
to thomas: But thats exactly where i think your missing the point where you're throwing names and im not saying the soul is a man I am saying the soul carries from one person to another all of the person it inhabited befores choices, mistakes, and etc. not saying a man is his soul a man is a man but the idea of that mans soul carrying on afterwards seems like a very good way to put it.
 
thank you for elaborating on this quahom its much appreciated to hear the words many different and bible in the same sentence because it is so true. so many different versions all carrying the same point but with minor details changed it does become very confusing. and I know we cant out think god maybe that is why some men do have very hard times understanding the bible. he is the all knowing and i wont even tread on this subject, i am inferior to gods knowledge. but i think my idea/dream whatever holds a weight that makes sense
 
My original point is that in Christianity there is no distinction between 'man' and 'soul.' (This can no longer be argued. Hebrew and Greek scholars are agreed that in a Scriptural context the word 'soul' comes from the Greek, but the definition should rightly be Hebrew. The opposition of body and soul in Scripture is a calling to man to rise above his base nature, not to abandon his body.)

I do not challenge your right to think as you do - I am simply saying that reincarnation is not part of Christian doctrine.

Can I put it this way:

A 'soul' signifies the presence of a 'being' (albeit a mode of being, but nevertheless a being-aware-of-itself) separate and distinct from other beings. A soul finds itself in a world of souls. A self in a world full of selves.
(The nature of this separation is originally a gift, temporally tragic, but nevertheless a reality and ultimately triumphant.)

This 'being as distinct,' this 'me' not 'you' which is unique, we identify as 'person.'

[To follow your argument, If 'I' had innumerable lives before 'me' (this instance of 'I'), and inumerable lives ahead of 'me', then 'I' would be 'everybody,' but nobody would be 'me'.)

+++

The form that a soul takes is its mode of being, which determines its nature.

If a being is to exist as a reality, it must manifest a presence of itself, even if only a mode of itself, else its manifestation is essentially a lie.

If a being is to exist in a physical world as a reality, it must manifest a physical presence of itself as a real mode of itself, else its manifestation is essentially a lie.

The appearance of humans tells us two things:
In essence we are the same;
In reality - in presence - in person - we are different.

The fact that we are told the soul stands (in judgement) before God, tells us that at the level of God:
In essence we are the same;
In presence - in person - we are different.
(Each personal soul will be judged according to itself, not in comparison to another)

This difference in presence identifies the 'person'.

In Christianity, it is the person who stands before God.

+++

If a being exists in the world, it must be by means of the world.
(Christ took on a physical body - he did not appear as a physical body - this is the meaning of Incarnation - he was here in person.)

This corporeal presence in the physical world must be as 'real' to itself as its incorporeal presence in the spiritual world, the body is the soul's own means of being present in the world. Without a body there is no place nor presence of a soul.

Without a body it cannot act, nor be acted upon.

There would be no point in creation if the soul was not 'really' there, and there would be no point of the soul being present in the world if it could not interact with the world in a real and worldly way.

+++
That we have become separate from our own true being is self evident.

We perceive ourselves more immediately as body, not as soul.

We view ourselves as a bundle of components that have little or no relation, no reality, with regard to each other. As shards of a broken mirror that no longer fit together.

Each part has become 'abstract' to the other.

We view our souls as other than ourselves.

+++

The body, this mortal coil, is the soul fulfilling the requirements of being present in this corporeal world. This body is a containment of a presence in the same way that this soul is a containment of an essence.

Christ made whole and transfigured this human nature, this body and soul, on Mount Tabor, when not just his flesh but even the clothes upon his back (every aspect of the physical world) became white (pure), then transparent, and finally shone forth with the blinding light of the Divine Source of all things.

We are called to transfiguration, not reincarnation.

We are called to change the world, not repeat it.

This is the Doctrine of Theosis,
the transfiguration of Creation.

Thomas
 
well as might as well say and this is totally off of subject that I am not christian because I believe that organized religion in the way its approached today is almost against gods will. preaching to others is as it sais somewhere in the bible not "kosher" but spreading the word is different but these days sometimes it seems like more of an arguement to some people so I prefer to stay non denominational for the sheer fact my faith and praise in god alone is what gets me through. crhistianity catholocism and etc reincarnation is against the rules and not possible but it wouldnt be reincarnation since the soul is a conduit and really never dies, inhabiting another physical form is "Incarnation" in a manner of speaking. like starting a new cycle. like here this is an irrelevant comparison but it will do. A video game letrs say mario brothers since when you ultimately die you have to totally restart. the video game (the person) the player (the soul) when the game is over (person dying) the person playing (the soul) is still there in front of the t.v. and he/she starts a new game but not where he or she left off a whole new game from the beginning. The soul in this case starting anew without reappearing in some other guy or just making someone appear out of thin air. a soul in a baby in a womb unborn ready to start life anew.

if this doesnt make sense im sorry but to me it makes alot of sense, and i know that NO ONE knows the answer. But this is my opinion and I do respect and like yours, although I stand behind mine.

JeV
 
Back
Top