Exceptional Depths of Mind

[Zin]

Hi all,

I'm looking to speak to people with exceptional open views regarding the history of mankind and the origin of ideas. Out of the box thinking would be the norm, thus be advised that going this deep within the being can be very draining and flying blind would be like breathing. I will start with what I found to be the most basic idea missed by most individuals; “Thought”



Before the church, governments and religion there seem to be a number of basic thoughts that most of us today cannot even imagine but rely on every moment on our path. Once these thoughts / ideas have been stripped out, simple bodily functions like opening your hand can be explained without the use of complex words or phrases. But stripping away these ideas would take an echo, for talking to yourself only brings more questions, without hearing your answers imbedded within your questions – you are bound to accumulate too many unanswered questions, which will lead to the eventual collapse of your reasoning on the subject.



The search has began; the moment has come…

Sense you soon.

 

[_Z_]

hello zin, nice to meat you!

Are you looking for primordial thought, something along the idea of man as he first began to lean linguistic meaning? Well perhaps we could go one step back from that to the world of nature and in particular animals and birds. My pet dog ‘knows’ when a member of our family is about to arrive at our house [I am sure you know of many such similars], without dwelling on such things I would note that animals ‘think’ non-linguistically & seam to be able to sense things externally to there ‘personal sphere’ [brain hemisphere & sensual detection distance], Its like they can tune into our minds on a primary level!
This is where it gets interesting for me: the primordial mind is [I believe] ever-present on a primary level, animals & birds are more at one with this level of ‘mindfulness’/being. Once the dog knows us it can reach through on a mind to mind level – I think of it like two cones joined at the centre, with the primordial mind as the universal centre & our minds at the cone end with the primary mind in between and working up. On another level of the same equation I regularly use birds for divination [like a living tarot deck] with sometimes very accurate results, in my view they can receive messages [non-linguistic] from what I call ‘the book with no name’ [see ghost universe thread] or info from the primordial mind, which they then ‘transmit’ to me by the above method.

From this one could say that meaning has its origin in our human-animal being & that this meaning is very practically based but unspecific, only with our minds becoming linguistic can we translate as I do the birds, yet animals only get a vague sense of e.g. danger via this method. Of course as our minds become more complex we get bogged down in the multiplicity & duality of the world ignoring the primary level of info arriving in the mind.



Well I hope this is some kind of a start that you were aiming at! If not please elaborate on where you want to take this – sounds interesting!



_Z_ [zed]

 

[pohaikawahine]

– I think of it like two cones joined at the centre, with the primordial mind as the universal centre & our minds at the cone end with the primary mind in between and working up. [/font]

_Z_ [zed]

\\

interesting that you use this description .... the native american "tipi" (and I should state not all tribes use the 'tipi') is suppose to the a part of an image of sacred above and sacred below .... the sacred above and sacred below are viewed as two vortices joined at their apexes (or two cones joined at the center)

the building of a 'tipi' is the recreation of the world .... it is done in a very specific pattern starting first with 3 poles .... it is the building of a star as the foundation of the world .... once the star is realized and things are centered, 7 more poles are added .... this is the stabilization, the ordering of space, time and movement .... then two more poles are added which are the 'ears' which contgrol the flow of air in the tipi, air which is the vehicle of spirit .... the tipi and the world can now breathe spirit in and out and communite with the higher powers .... it is through the process of prayer that the connection is made with the light from above then the two vortices are completed ....this comes from Lakota Star Knowledge ....

other tribes have different structures for homes and living, and they also have very specific symbols and rituals that recreate the world so that we remember who we are .....

I don't know what exceptional depth of mind really means .... but it seems that answers come best when you don't think about them .... too much thought sometimes muddies the waters .... and muddy water is not a good conduit for thought .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine

 

[_Z_]

Pohaikawahine: hello!



Very interesting indeed! I have looked on the net for Native American philosophy – I am sure one of the sites was concerning ‘Lakota star knowledge’, it was interesting to find many parallels to other religions esp. the ‘as above so below’ notion. It was a while ago but I remember something about a mountain that was considered to be the first mound of existence, or something like that, people went there for healing etc. also there was a map showing how certain stars were ‘mirrored’ in earthly features!
This is similar to the ancient Egyptians building the pyramids at Giza, as relative to Orion with the Nile being the Milky Way. In my ancient culture [pre-druidic Britain] the stone circles were built to the stars and planets & gods e.g. Stonehenge to Saturn, avebury to the earth mother. Apparently the pre-druidic priests held ‘circle dances’ with many thousands of participants in honour of the earth mother[avebury is set as a circle overlaid by a cross – a symbol of the earth mother].

I agree answers come best from simplicity or the primary mind as they are unadulterated – a good way to read from the book with no name as we druids say, however one may also carry that primary conception [or idea from the void/womb] and plant it as a seed in the mind, thence forth letting it grow as a single stem unto its natural fulfilment of itself – without allowing it to branch off on tangents, thus dissipating into the chaos of the ordinary world/mind-state. By doing this we may see a given notion in its fully manifest state, that is to say the thing for what it is of itself, although this form of knowledge is lesser than the original seed thus can be regarded as what we druids call a ‘natural philosophy’ [one of many contexts of the fundamental druidic belief in natural magic and philosophy].

Well my tree grew many branches there but I hope you see what I mean & perhaps ‘zin’ can elaborate on what he/she meant.

 

[pohaikawahine]

Pohaikawahine: hello!



It was a while ago but I remember something about a mountain that was considered to be the first mound of existence, or something like that, people went there for healing etc. also there was a map showing how certain stars were ‘mirrored’ in earthly features!

The "mound" or "mountain" is usually a symbol of the human head (at least in my understanding) and this is the place we all go to for healing .... the as above, so below concept is played out in the cosmos and the mind, mirrors of each other .... some native american structures are in the shape of the 'mound' such as the 'hogan' which is built partially above and partially below ground .... there is a structure internally that is similar to a temple in that the fire (replica of the altar) is placed in the center and of course the hole at the top of the structure (to release smoke) is also the symbol of the opening of the brain or mind to the heavens ....

Apparently the pre-druidic priests held ‘circle dances’ with many thousands of participants in honour of the earth mother[avebury is set as a circle overlaid by a cross – a symbol of the earth mother].

the circle overlaid by a cross is also seen throughout the pacific, it is the symbol of the sacred seven (the circle, the two parts of the cross, and the four quatrants created) .... this is the symbol of the male and female energies that merge to open the mind .... I have seen it many times connected with different symbols on the ancient houses and on the god's house ..... sometimes there is a spider which holds seven of these circles and is posed over a inverted clam shell (which represents the womb or mother earth) .... the spider represents the "spider's net" that covers the brain itself (aka the arachnoid) which is also known as the shroud or the veil .... this is the reference when someone talks from behind the veil, or even the wedding veil of a new bride because when the male and female energies merge the open the center of the brain which is sometimes called the bridal chamber .... the unversal "tree of life" is a symbol of the human body itself (and to my mind is related to the druid knowledge of the oak tree symbol) .... its roots deeply rooted in the earth and its branches reaching for the sky .... the ultimate marriage of the sky father and earth mother when the internal system is reconnected ....

back to the concept of the depth of mind .... perhaps it is reaching deeply into the mind to find that place of stillness that opens us to the world of visions and revelations .... it is said that when we find this place we can heal ourselves and our world .... seems like a good place to go .... the hawaiian chant of creation is called the Kumulipo which means "the source" and is made up of several words which mean teachings of the deep ocean, the ancient ocean that resides within each of us .... "kumu" is teacher and "lipo" is the color of the deep ocean, the place that one can barely see the shadows of objects, but they are slightly visible as though seen through a "veil" ..... one must look "deep" to see .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[_Z_]

P, so many parallels. Another interesting post! The Celts believed that the spirit resided in the head hence the taking of heads in battle as trophies, I was wondering if the barrows - man made burial mounds [pre-Celtic] – represented the collective head of the tribe or village, but I always thought it was a pregnant earth mother womb whereupon the spirit is re-born to it’s next life. Archaeologists found that the skeletal remains are often separated & sometimes there are just parts of skeletons, this to me suggests to me that the dead were somehow thought to be mixed up in the next world or even unified as one in the ‘original self’ [some parts of different people were mixed up!]. This would be the return to the one which is followed by the re-animation of the self by the same thing that brought them into being in the previous life. In the druidic tradition there are three circles of spirit in the re-birth process that remind me a little of the ocean you were describing, these have there parallels/mirrors in the human mind-spirit: the ‘annwn’ [darkness {a-noon}] - outer most circle – equal to the dark ocean, perhaps the void & absence of thought. ‘Abred’ – evolution, thought of as shape-shifting from lesser beings to greater & also as growing from the seed to being born, arising thought into meaning. Then there is the third circle of ‘Gwynfid’, the radiating light of divinity – adulthood or completeness, in thought this would perhaps be the result of the pure stream or unadulterated knowledge [my tree as in last post]. Beyond all this is the absolute divine centre called ‘Ceugant’, this is not a circle but a point & an unobtainable place that the spirit may not go to, it is the place of divine knowledge unobtainable - beyond the tree & before the arising seed so to say.

This to me seams very Christianise but gives a glimpse of the original view.



Z