Who Drove the Nails?

InLove

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Peace to All Here--

I have always thought that the argument about who crucified Jesus was absurd.

Some blame the Jews; Some blame the Romans. I say I did it. More than that, though, I say He did it.

He allowed it. We all drove the nails. I will go so far as to say that perhaps His own blessed mother did not willingly drive those nails, but because He allowed it to be done, He saved her, as he saved us all who are willing to recognize His sacrifice.

I guess I am just talking, or wondering if there are lovers of Jesus who would like to respond--

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Peace to All Here--

I have always thought that the argument about who crucified Jesus was absurd.

Some blame the Jews; Some blame the Romans. I say I did it. More than that, though, I say He did it.

He allowed it. We all drove the nails. I will go so far as to say that perhaps His own blessed mother did not willingly drive those nails, but because He allowed it to be done, He saved her, as he saved us all who are willing to recognize His sacrifice.

I guess I am just talking, or wondering if there are lovers of Jesus who would like to respond--

InPeace,
InLove

Ive always felt the same way.. It wasnt just the physical act of it.. but the reason or purpose of it. I know that Jesus could have stopped it at anytime because He said so. I cast no blame on anyone other than myself.. and I repent everytime I think of it. Right now even the thought of it brings tears to my eyes.

Thanks for this thread InLove... I think alot of us want to be reminded of the sacrifice He made for us.
 
He used the Jews to make the Romans do the physical act. But it was done only by his choice and allowing it to be done to him cause the love he had for everyone since Adam and all the way up to the untold numbers still to be born.

Everything led up to that moment. He made the ultimate sacrifice to proof his love for all mankind including the few who actually did the nailing if you remember what he said.:)
 
Dor said:
He used the Jews to make the Romans do the physical act. But it was done only by his choice and allowing it to be done to him cause the love he had for everyone since Adam and all the way up to the untold numbers still to be born.

Everything led up to that moment. He made the ultimate sacrifice to proof his love for all mankind including the few who actually did the nailing if you remember what he said.:)

How ironic that the very gentiles that put Him to death, are the first to accept Him for life...:cool:
 
his own people, the jews, caused his death to fulfill the scriptures. the romans were just the law, the only authority to do such a thing; however pilate didnt want to do it, he saw no reason, and washed his hands of it. however the jews persisted on having him put to death and released a criminal according to their tradition to fulfill the scriptures.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
his own people, the jews, caused his death to fulfill the scriptures. the romans were just the law, the only authority to do such a thing; however pilate didnt want to do it, he saw no reason, and washed his hands of it. however the jews persisted on having him put to death and released a criminal according to their tradition to fulfill the scriptures.

Wrong. Not one Jew touched Jesus. Not one. The cause of death of Jesus was at the hands (soley) of Roman soldiers. There is a significance here in this (but I wish I could remember what it was...some prophecy). Secondly, it wasn't the Jews (at large) that wanted the death of Jesus, but the high priests. he cramped their style...

v/r

Q
 
I personally interpreted the crucifixion event as demonstrative not of the malice of any particular cultural population, but instead through a process of popularism inherent within any most cultural populations - death by mob rule.
 
The Jews did not kill Christ because the Jews could not kill Christ. They did not have legal authority in matters of capital crimes under Roman law at that time.

The Jews were a diverse group of 4,500,000 people spread out over many nations of the world. They could not collectively take any solitary decisive action for which all could take credit or all share blame.

The Jews did not have power over God. The death of Christ was according to God’s sovereign will according to the Scriptures.

The Jews did not have control over a decision that belonged to Jesus. Jesus laid His life down. Nobody took it from Him. It would be wrong to depreciate His love by suggesting that the Jewish people, or other groups of people were responsible for our eternal salvation. After all, that is what Christ purchased through His death.

It was the temple priests.. the sadducees and pharisees that called for His death.. if you do not recall.. Pilate hesitated to kill Him and asked What evil has this man done.. The response from the priests and their followers was to crucify Him... Basically forcing Pilates hand. If you read the verses where Jesus was telling His disciples of His impending death.. He said it was the priests that wanted Him to die. You cannot put the literal crime of it on a whole race whether it be Jewish or Gentile. That would be like saying all the Germans killed the Jews in the holocaust. Or all the Americans killed Kennedy. Or all the Muslims were responsible for 9/11 its completely unrealistic and silly.
 
over and over again throughout the bible jewish people, leaders and priests conspired to kill jesus from the day he was born. though jesus ultimately laid down his own life because it was Gods will, there are reasons (the bigger picture) why the chosen people did not accept their own messiah and had him put to death.

Mark 3:6 says, “Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.” The day before Jesus’ death we read, “the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Him by trickery and put Him to death” (Mark 14:1). It is the Sanhedrin, the core of Jewish leadership that puts Jesus on trial and passes the verdict, “He is deserving of death” (Matthew 26:66). After the verdict is passed we read, “When morning came, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put Him to death. And when they had bound Him, they led Him away and delivered Him to Pontius Pilate the governor” (Matthew 27:1-2)

In verses 13-24 we see that Pilate is about to release Jesus because Pilate has found nothing in Jesus worthy of death. When this announcement is made, the chief priests, the rulers, and the people (Luke 23:13) cried out “Crucify Him, crucify Him!” (Luke 23:21). Luke 23:23 tells us that these people were insistent that Jesus be crucified, so that their voices prevailed.

peter talking to the jewish people after they cured a lame man..
And when Peter saw [it], he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Pilate was just a tool to do the deed. He was forced to do it because he was coerced, forced, and pressured into it. he had the authority given to him to fulfill the scriptures that Jesus would die. However, Pilate did not initiate it, nor found him guilty, but had to do it to fulfill the scriptures.
Then Jesus said to Pilate, "you would have no power over me at all unless it were given to you from above. So the one who brought me to you has the greater sin."
 
over and over again throughout the bible jewish people, leaders and priests conspired to kill jesus from the day he was born.

Herod, conspired to have the "messiah" killed in His infancy...but Herod was not a Jew...
 
Frankly, whenever I hear someone literally, (and that's one of the problems with taking an overly literal approach to the scriptures), condemning any individual/group for "killing Christ," I think they're missing the boat in many ways. I mean, come on, would there have been a Christianity if Jesus had not been crucified? Did not Jesus by speaking of his death to come not say in essence "it was part of the plan?" And metaphorically-or maybe literally:) - anytime we close our hearts off to God/Christ, are we not also not participating in the "killing of Christ?" Have a good one, Earl
 
"anytime we close our hearts off to God/Christ, are we not also not participating in the "killing of Christ?"


No.


and no, herod was not a jew, but was a "jewish king".
 
earl said:
Frankly, whenever I hear someone literally, (and that's one of the problems with taking an overly literal approach to the scriptures), condemning any individual/group for "killing Christ," I think they're missing the boat in many ways. I mean, come on, would there have been a Christianity if Jesus had not been crucified? Did not Jesus by speaking of his death to come not say in essence "it was part of the plan?" And metaphorically-or maybe literally:) - anytime we close our hearts off to God/Christ, are we not also not participating in the "killing of Christ?" Have a good one, Earl

i do take the bible literal however i do not feel like i am the one who killed Jesus or drove the nails. i know he went to Calvary & shed blood for my very own disobedience & to make reconciliation. but it was because he loved me & he knew it was something that he had to do in order to get that love out to me. I had to find that out for myself & the only way was in spirit.
you are on track there with it being "part of the plan", Earl.
i think you have the metaphor/literal right, on the death there. there are some places where it seems clear to me.
there is also the other side & how we participate in the life & resurrection.

Jesus laid down his life. He said, "i lay down my life for the sheep, no man taketh it from me" (paraphrased)
 
Hi, everyone--Peace, and thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am always amazed and blessed by the input I recieve when I dare to express my own thoughts and beliefs here.

I still say that I did it. I drove those nails. He allowed it. Don't you see? It is what it all means. If I cannot "fess up", then there is no reason for Him to die for me.

If you want to look at it from an historical standpoint, and maybe say that there were those who followed Him at the time, and were His students and disciples and even His own family members (even His mother)---still, what was the point of His sacrifice if I do not see it as my salvation? I think His own Mother knew this better than any of the rest of us. I smile sometimes, when I think of how she must have defended Him all her life (as well as having to defend herself against all the accusations she surely withstood). I think that possibly she alone somehow knew that His death on the cross was not the end. If anyone in this world ever had a right to speak the words, "I told you so", perhaps it was Mary.

I doubt that I would have literally, physically hammered those spikes into the wrists and ankles of Jesus. But I still drove those nails--and he was hung upon that awful Cross for me.

InPeace,
InLove
 
*******Eph 5:1-2
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
NKJV
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
NKJV
Gen 22:15-17
15 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: "By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son-- 17 blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.
NKJV

(The story of Abraham and Isaac is a foreshadow of God and Christ)

Rom 8:32-33
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
*******


(Honestly I dont think anyone made of flesh and blood drove those nails....... But becuase of those nails we can Call him ((Daddy))-Father!!!!!)

*******Rom 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
*******
*******Gal 4:1-7
4:1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
*******
 
" I still say that I did it. I drove those nails."

thats alot of blame to take for something you didnt do. Lets start first off with moses. because of the jews unbelief in the wilderness, God got angry and vowed, his people will not enter his rest. the point here is HIS PEOPLE. Gentiles are not his chosen people, we did not walk in the wilderness and doubt God, yet we are saved thru jesus christ, like a wild olive tree branch that is grafted in; however GENTILES are NOT the ROOT.
Jesus was NOT born to Gentiles, but born to gods chosen people. again, because of the jews unbelief, even though they witnessed miracles again, they hardened their hearts and were blind to the truth, the truth being jesus was the son of god and his works and words were Gods. through the jews rejection of the messiah and fear of what jesus would do to their religious and political system, they offered jesus up in place of a murderer.
although jesus did lay down his life by doing the will of the father. he did not turn himself in, but the bigger picture was for his own people to turn him in and reject him. All of which god has a plan. because of jesus' death, gentiles (and jews) may now receive the gifts of salvation when they believe in jesus christ as lord saviour, and through the work of the holy spirit, take christianity to the entire world.
 
The idea is that once the branch is grafted onto the tree, it becomes part of the tree. The roots become for all intensive purposes the branch's roots. The sins that Christ died for to wipe clean are the sins of the past, present and future (we're the future, hence our sins are included as well). we were also told that what ever we do to another person...we do to Christ. So if we harm another, then we harm Christ. If we are kind to another, then we are kind to Christ. Hence, it can be said that we do drive the nails in, on a daily basis, and sometimes we take Him down from the cross and care for Him.

Whether literal or not, is irrelevent. The idea is to get us to think beyond ourselves, and consider others first.

My thoughts.

v/r

Q
 
Who killed Jesus? God did! "It pleased the Father to burise the Son." Acts 2 talks about God's plan for redemption consisted of God being the one to bring about Jesus' death the way it happened. Jesus died because we were depraved sinners unable to do anything to save ourselves.
 
Jesus laid down His life for His friends, God spared not His Son. God's will was performed here, and Jesus in obedience to God willingly (see His prayer in the Gethsemene Garden) took the cup.

But as far as the instruments that God used to accomplish this, I'm going to, for the most part, agree with BlaznFattyz, that it was the religious leaders who incited the crowd to crucify Jesus. They set the wheels in motion. Not all Jews, but a good number who stood along with the chief priests that day. The chief priests have already been plotting Jesus death for some time.

It is a phenomenom of the psychological state of mob rule that drove the crowd to a frenzy in regards to Jesus. You see this even today, with the Rodney King riots and Muslim demonstrations. In that state, I would venture to say that many in that crowd who chanted "Crucify Him!" probably would not have had the same sentiment had they not been physically present, there is something about being in the midst of this kind of event that drive people bonkers (Look at the old tapes of The Beatles' Ed Sullivan appearences and you get the idea of what I'm talking about). Jesus even said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Of course, I'm not blaming the whole Jewish race of crucifying Jesus, as some racists would proclaim, just those who had an active part. But even then, in that passionate moment, I feel that many the Jews who participated in that event probably understood little what was going on.

Peter even lays the blame on the Jews at Pentacost in Acts 2:22-24:

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."

Notice here that Peter said YE, not WE. Had Peter felt blame in crucifying Jesus, he would have included himself.

I am eternally gateful for what Jesus has done for me in bearing my sins on the Cross. But I don't feel the guilt of bearing the blame for His physical crucifixtion. Had I'd been there, I may have been guilty of being one of the sheep that were scattered like the rest of the disciples, but I would not feel guilty of being an instigator in Christ's torture and death. Rather, I would have probably been sadly and helplessly standing by watching the events as they unfold.

I don't think God wants us to feel guilty in something we didn't do. Yes, we are accountable for our own sins, but not the sins of our fathers, as the bible plainly teaches.
 
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